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PO1 Paint from AGCO? |
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 12:38am |
I generally use Persian Orange #2 and Corporate Orange paint from AGCO. It's easy to use, it's always the same color, it lasts a long time with out fading and if I need to make a repair I can grab a spray can and it always matches. It's a little more than Farm & Fleet paint but cheaper than automotive paint.
However I've never used their PO#1, it's only available in quarts. Has anybody out there used it? It seems that PO#1 is tough to mix, every show I go to has 5 tractors painted PO1 in 4 different shades.
My 46 WC, WD, WD45 and early D17 were repainted PO#2 before I got them and even though it's "wrong" I like them. My 36 WC needs painted and I'm debating on going "original" or PO2 so it matches the herd.
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Butch(OH)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lucerne Ohio Points: 3835 |
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Has AGCO Lowered paint prices? last time I checked my dealer their paint price was 2X PPG OMNI. I have seen the AGCO PO1 and it is pretty decent to my eyes. The reason you see 18 different shades of WD-45s in a show line of 18 tractors has little to due with being hard to mix and a whole lot to do with owners and paint mfgs who dont know there is a differance, dont care about the differance or in some cases they just plain like the newer colors. I like the #2 color best myself but have allways placed that behind having the tractor the correct color. That being said there is somthing to the notion that in some colors of lead free paint are harder to match to their leaded ansestors than others. Orange being one of them, at least according to my PPG dealer. What happens is in certain light the match will be very good, in other light it's off a lot. With today's computer operated mixers anybody with the equipment can mix the right color from a sample. PPG's 60080 has long been considered "correct" and in good light it is pretty close but put nice original beside a 60080 painted tractor in a shed lighted with floresent lighting and a person would thing that Stevie Wonder did the color matching, same thing late in the day when the sun is low in the sky. Edited by Butch(OH) - 28 Jan 2010 at 5:33am |
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Dave(inMA)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Grafton, MA Points: 2398 |
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Dave, I don't know about the challenges of mixing PO1. As to whether you paint your WC PO1 or PO2, I'd say it depends on your goal. Are you going for authenticity, or do you prefer PO2 so much that you'd rather have it match your other tractors? One question: if (shudder) you bought a JD, would you paint it PO2 to match your other tractors? I know what I'd do if it were my tractor, but it's yours!
Edited by Dave(inMA) - 28 Jan 2010 at 5:34am |
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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gary ny
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: verona ny Points: 361 |
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I just did a wd45 d with delfleet essential .What a nice finish Its a !!! Shines like crazy hard a nails.I wanted to try this on one that was going to be a show piece first because I have 5 trctors coming in that get worked and will be shown .For example of how hard it is I painted the steering shaft off the tractor and putting it back in it never scratched a bit. I have never use agco po1 but I have painted a few massey fergusons using there paint and it was a very nice paint but the match on thing was not that good and the choices I did not think good
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Oldoug
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 1120 |
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AGCO has the PO #1 in a spray can, we have it in stock at our dealership, it is high priced though at about $20 a can. Some of the paint prices have come down.
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Bill_MN
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1466 |
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quart of PO1 is AGCO part #79021641 from the Heritage Line catalog |
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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I must admit I haven't priced auto paint vs Agco paint in quite a while but in the past I could always buy Agco cheaper, I know paint cost in gerneral has gotten unreal!
If I was going to paint a JD I would definatly use John Deere paint for the same reason I use Agco paint. And I'm pretty envious, those guys can paint an unstyled A, a 4020 or a 4440 with the same color green and yellow. That's 3 different oranges, cream and white for the same years of Allis.
Until last fall I've never "restored" a tractor but I have repainted a few. I repainted my WD45 for my Dad back in 1981 and I decided to use PO#2 because as a working tractor I assumed it would fade to PO#1 eventually. When we were getting ready for the threshermans this year we washed her and touched her up with a spray can of PO2 I'd just picked up from Agco and it was a perfect match. I'm restoring a MH 44 and Agco only has MF red and it's too dark so I'm using TISCO paint on it. I'm going to use hardener in the final coat so I hope it doesn't fade.
I had a friend who painted a 1066 with IH paint, his dad liked it so much he had him repaint the 966 too. He used Martin Senour paint from NAPA (w/o hardener), and in about 10 months they had a pink 966!
My 34 WC is is not "original" and I'm going to put electric start and lights on it because I think it will get played with more often with Estart. Currently shes an ugly shade of dark orange and I've painted the wheels black which may or may not be correct but I like it. The inside of one front wheel has cream showing where the paint is peeling. I replaced the radiator last fall and after it came back from the radiator shop it needed painted and all I had on hand was some corporate orange. Kinda reminds me of Rudolf! After I swap the bellhousing and fix a few leaks I think she deserves some new paint, but since she will be a "modernised" WC I'm not sure politically correct paint is a big deal! LOL!
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29782 |
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Actually I think Deere has change their green at least once or twice over the years just like IH changed a couple times their red. Deere guys seem to not care and I don't think that the change is as noticeable as the oranges. As always, I could be wrong.
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gary ny
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: verona ny Points: 361 |
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Deere paint is a very nice paint and they did change colors ,they have a classic green and I am not sure when they changed to the newer green ,I haven t had to paint anything newer then a 3020 yet and that one the dealer gave me the classic .Dave I always tell people when they do tractors over is that the only one that matters is you ,you have to do it the way you want to do it .There is always something that is never in short supply and that opinions so paint it and do the tractors with what your happy with because your the one that looks at it the most.
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d17brown
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: farley iowa Points: 1694 |
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i use persien 2 from agco,it runs 52$ a quart and cant get it in gallons,i figure going thru all the prep work and time of painting , might as well have the right color and a shine, i use auto hardner, and dupont reducer
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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I think Deere has three colors of green, one is the "regular" green, and that has had at least one change to remove/ reduce lead content, a lawn mower green that doesn't match ag stuff and I think there is a different paint for current tractors and combines that has more to do with painting plastic than a color change. I could be wrong, I don't spend much time at the Deere dealer since I don't have one of their combines any more.
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Ken in Texas
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Henderson, TX Points: 5919 |
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Restore or restoring defined.
To bring back or put back into a former or original state.
The term restored should apply to paint color and shade. Paint em any color you like is not good restoration advice. If it isn't put back to its former or original state including the color is it truly a restored tractor?
I'm curious. Is the Agco paint a Alkyd Enamel , Acrylic Enamel, Polyurethane Enamel or none of the above?
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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A good point Ken, but my thought is that the volume of unrestored originals and restored WCs is such that I feel comfortable in doing what I like with my WC, or a WD or a WD45 for that matter.
My D19 diesel has been "restored" with the exception of adding a factory 3pt from a 190 back when it was a "working" tractor. The 3pt was an option so I'm comfortable with that and still calling it a restoration. But I put radial tires on the rear and bigger fronts and it has a different precleaner, so is it really restored?
My D17 series IV will be restored with proper paint and decals. My series 1 D17 will eventually be restored but I kind of like it the way I got from my uncle (PO2, cream wheels & grill) but there are few restored D17s around so I think "correct" restorations are in order.
If I get a UC (wish list) you can bet it will get properly restored, but a WC is like a JD A, when you see 20 or more at any tractor show the interesting ones are different from the rest not the 19 that look exactly the way they came off the assembly line.
It is interesting to see what some owners have done to adapt their tractor to a special use, customize it to their taste or update it to keep it useful. Sometimes a tractor in it's it's working clothing is cooler than a restoration. Keep in mind I'm not talking about painting my WC purple. And depending on what paint they used and how it was mixed PO1 seems to have many different shades, but I think AC used to have the same problem on the assembly line with each batch of paint they used.
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Bob(FL)
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL. Points: 1321 |
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Gary ny, I also used the delfleet essential paint on my d19 when I did it, took a bit to get the hang of that paint, for me there was a very fine line between having it rough and too much paint and getting a run and also picking the right activator, fast, standard, slow or very slow but is it a very tough paint.
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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I stand corrected JD comes in Classic and “everything else ag” according to the local dealer JD “Regular” Green Paint: $16.99 Qt $45.89 Gal (I forgot to ask about spray cans) This is what my local Agco dealer said today AGCO/ AC paint: Spray Can – Quart - Gallon PO1 - $ 19.77 SC $61.18 Qt N.A. Gal PO2 - $ 9.31 SC $52 Qt N.A. Gal Corp - $ 9.35 SC $25.27 Qt $86.05 Gal Cream - $9.68 SC $19.50 Qt I don't know the composition of the paint beyond enamel.
The parts place that sold DuPont / PPG is out of business so I guess that’s not an option locally.
What do you pay for PPG? It might be worth going out of town... Would a 1936 flat top WC with electric start, lights off of a JD A, possibly a delco altenator (but probably a generator) and correct decals but painted corporate orange with black wheels and silver rims make the Correct Police go crazy? LOL! |
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Bill_MN
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1466 |
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when I did my mounted plow I paid $75.15 for 3 qts. PPG OMNI 60080 (Urethane) and a pint of hardener. i believe the paint was about $18-19 qt. and $17 hardener. got it at my local Auto Value which also is a PPG dealer
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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ALinIL
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Frankfort, IL Points: 316 |
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I've painted a few AC's and have noticed that there is also a color difference depending on the color of the primer. I now only use grey primer. The red primer seem to make for a darker color. - AL
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ALinIL
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Frankfort, IL Points: 316 |
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Dave - here do you get AC paint. Have you tried Streator Farm store just N of Streator? Clint can probably get it for you. - AL
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TerryMN
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Rochester MN Points: 201 |
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Agco paint is made by Valspar. John Deere paint is made by Valspar. Valspar is sold by Fleet Farm in my town. (For like $40 per gal) BUT when you buy (ALLIS CHALMERS ORANGE) from them in the standard or restoration series it is corparte orange. So when you buy the $52 quart of PO #1 from Agco don't yet them or your mind think it is some super high quality paint because of the Price, AGCO is just putting another item in the oriface on you back side. I have been finding on a large number of items from they unless it is new old stock (which AGCO does have a lot of) you would be better off finding it else where. Valspar paint does work The corperate from the restoration series would be great on a 7000 or 8000.
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Ken in Texas
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Henderson, TX Points: 5919 |
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AL
Orange has a problem like yellow. It is semi transparent. If you spray it on a sheet of glass and hold it up to the light you can see light comming thru. I don't know how many mil thickness or coats are needed to get solid coverage. Solid coverage is the only way to get the true color. The PO#1 is a rather muddy pumpkin shade of orange and should cover good but it don't.
You get what you pay for. My son runs a restoration and rod shop and uses quite a bit of U-TECH 3.8 HSP Polyurethane single stage. It is about three times the price of OMNI AE but it has three times the pigments and covers three times as good. We have a match in it now for PPG 60080. Haven't done a spray out yet but it looks great wet against wet on a paint stick with OMNI AE. If you let the excess run off the stick the OMNI looks transparent the U-TECH looks solid when dry.
I don't recomend this but it worked for me on the last two tractors I finish painted with PPG OMNI AE with hardner. The cast iron was cleaned of rust and old paint and primed with oil base red primer. A first coat of inexpensive Valspar orange enamel was brushed on as a orange color base coat for the OMNI . It was allowed to dry real good and scuffed lightly. Dusted off and spray painted 2 coats wet on wet with OMNI. The cast iron really looks great.
The sandblasted sheet metal was done with epoxy primer. Body work done where needed and a heavy coat of slick sand primer was block sanded smooth. Wherever metal showed after sanding a shot or two of primer touched that up and a final light sanding and dusting got it ready for the OMNI. It got no less than 4 wet on wet coats. When assembled all parts looked the same shade of PO#1 60080 in any light.
I'm a retired house painter and painting tractors is not the same as kitchen cabinets. My son who makes his living restoring and painting $40,000 Packards told me the last B I did looked real good. Shooting OMNI over Valspar Alkyd worked but I don't recommend it. Doing the B this way used less than 3 quarts of OMNI AE and a little over a quart of Valspar Alkyd.
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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This has been very educational. Does Valspar only offer Corporate orange labeled as Allis Chalmers orange and no PO1 or 2? Is the Restoration series a different formula than plain implement paint? Are you sure paint made for JD and AGCOs specs would be the same as paint made for Farm & Fleet or TSC? I only ask because I've used cheap paint (can't say it was Valspar) and it was never very good, poor coverage and faded or peeled etc. I've alwas had good luck with OEM stuff.
Al, Streator Farm Mart is about 10 miles away, my Dad started dealing with Clint when they first opened and I've been going there since I was a little kid. Clint is a good guy and I really miss his wife Louis. Today Kubota and other lawn and garden stuff is their main business. Unfortunately they are no longer an AGCO dealer and although they still stock AC parts they get them through another dealer. I have been meaning to ask Clint what he thinks about AGCO dropping orange tractors.
I get most of my parts from Flanagan Implement, they have more on hand and are usually cheaper. I've been going there literaly all my life, we bought most of our AC tractors there. I'm stopping by tomorrow and will ask how or if changing to MF will affect them. They sell the compact tractor line so I assume they are already an MF dealer. They sell Buhler Versitile now and they were a Versitile dealer before New Holland bought them. I think they sell more four wheel drive Versitiles than high horsepower AGCOs. They are the biggest Gleaner dealer in this area.
Sorry to get off topic.
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Bill_MN
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1466 |
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the reason for poor coverage with modern paint isn't the shortage of pigment rather it's the elimination of lead from the formula, I have talked with the local body shop guy and the guy who mixed my PPG paint and both agreed with me that lead was what really made it. pigment levels would be the same as they were back then, but I do agree modern formulas SHOULD have higher pigment concentrations to make up for the loss of lead.
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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gary ny
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: verona ny Points: 361 |
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Bob(fl)I am going to be using it on all the allis 's that come in ,I had a little getting use to it at first but I am so pleased with the way it flowed out.I was a little nervus because of its two hr pot life when mixed because I had most of the tractor hanging from racks in my shop and alot of times it takes that long to get everything cover the way I want it but this paint cover so well and with the medium dryer in it it really shined like glasss .And i didn t use as much paint as I usually do with the omni so I am very pleased with the paint
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Dave in il
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: Manville Il Points: 1748 |
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Looks like I will be looking up a PPG dealer I'm interested in this Delfleet Essential after looking it up on the web.
Talking with the owner at Flanagin Imp he said he thinks Agco will be hurt be by the change to MF. As for how it will effect them he said they're the same tractors. Back in the days of Duetz they painted brand new green tractors orange to make a sale. They can do it again. LOL
I also found out Valspar makes the paint AND lubricants, penitrating oil etc for Agco. Agco does not stock any of these products in their warehouses, they are ordered from Valspar directley, the minimum order has gone from $500 to $750. So if they run out of a color of paint you need it won't be reordered untill they need enough other stuff to make the minimum, yikes! Remember when a quart of paint on the stock order would be there in 3 days or less?
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NickT(Ky)
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elizabethtown, Points: 417 |
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I have used the PO#1 PPG acr/enam. It cost less than $80 2 years ago for a gal. Put hardener in it and it still shines (wet look). I have used the PPG PO#2 also.
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Ken in Texas
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Henderson, TX Points: 5919 |
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I'm like Dave in IL. After reading about Delfleet Essential on the PPG website this product interests me. It even lists rejuvinating Ag equipment and tractors as one of its uses.
I wonder what my local PPG dealer will say when I ask for Delfleet Essential color code PPG 60080. The last gal of Omni AE I asked for mixed PPG 60080 turned into a near disaster. Dealer said, computer say. No 60080 paint code found. I finally found a readable formula under the label of a old can I bought in 05 and got it mixed and it matched the 05 paint left in the old can.
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