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MadCow 
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 Topic: Plowing Gear for a D15 Series 1
Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 2:50pm |
Hey ya'll. I have a D15 Series 1, with a mounted 3 bottom, I believe 16" (not measured)
My ground has never been worked, and was hay fields for probably 30 years. I know it is abnormally hard, compacted, nasty ground.
My question is this, for those who use moldboards - what gear do you plow in? With the traction booster set so that the plow wouldn't raise out of the ground everytime the ground was slightly harder, I could go decently in 1st (1 low). But if I hit something to hard (roots of a small 3" dia tree) it'd kill it. I could try 2nd (1 high) in some of the lighter soils, but even then it'd kill it if i wasn't Johnny on the spot with the hand clutch.
I tried increasing the governor speed - rebuilt the carb, and ran it as rich as I could get it, and it never seemed to have the amount of power I was expecting/hoping for.
Are my expectations too high, or is it really lacking power?
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BobPaulusCentrOH
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 3:11pm |
Depends on what type of ground for 3 bottoms plow. A D15 Series 1 is same engine as a D14. I have a D14 and it will do well with 2 bottoms 14 inch in the clay soil we have around here. Doing well is 1st high range, second low range. I have a D15 Series 2 gas that has more power than the D14, but I never tried to plow with it. With 3 bottoms on a D14 busting sod, you are probably doing well with 1st gear low range. My humble opinion.
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MadCow
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 3:13pm |
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 3:32pm |
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LOW 2nd at a minimum. LOW third is the next step faster, which is my usual gear. Turn your depth crank OUT CCWise about 10 turns and see what happens. You are pretty deep.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 3:32pm |
looks GREAT to me !! Good speed, t**ds flop over real nice....
now IF you really want to break it up, wait a week then plow 90* from what you did. Say 1st pass was N-S, 2nd pass do E-W, 3rd N-S, Ground will be well broken up. As for 'gear', whatever one flips the t**ds over consistently is THE gear to be in.
OK, 't**ds' isn't the proper term, I'm sure someone will admonish me....
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Trinity45
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 4:17pm |
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Cannot say about a series 1, but dad has a series 2 that would pull a three bottom plow in third gear in the sandy bottoms low range, and 2nd gear high range on the hills and clay ground.
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 4:40pm |
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For a D15, on sod that hadn’t been plowed for 30 years, I’d say you are doing good! Couldn’t tell from my view if your plow had cover boards or not, they would help giving the soil a better ‘roll over’.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 5:01pm |
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Plows of that age were designed to plow at 3 mph or more, not low gear low or high side. Take it out of the ground a little bit and it will pull easier.
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MadCow
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 6:08pm |
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Thanks guys!
Isn't 2 high one step faster than 2 low? My third gear is lazy and doesn't like to keep working and breaking the tractor in half to properly admonish it, isn't in the cards right now.
I tried messing with the crank, but it seemed like it didn't do anything. Too shallow and it wouldn't cut, and as soon as it started cutting it went as deep as it could go. So I adjusted in two turns from when it just started to cut and called it.
Best way I found to alter my depth was to up the traction booster, but I was being greedy and really wanted to get the sod gone and the good soil to the top. I also just really believed the tractor should be able to do it. I was hoping that pushing the motor to 2400RPM would give me series II levels of power and I wouldn't have to worry.
Seems like you're all mostly saying the tractor is fine and I don't know how to use the plow. Which is highly likely. The shares are also older than my house, so I'm sure that was a large part of my issue. The colturs were also retired and over lounging in the shade while I was trying to plow.
I'm not sure what cover boards are. But I do have the tails hanging off the mold boards. However, if I only went the 3" deep or so, the sod layer wouldn't properly flip over, and would just lay back into the furrow.
I have chisel tips on my cultivator and I'm going to use that to 'finish' the field, unless someone gets me a mounted snap coupler disc for Christmas. I ran over a swath with the cultivator and it did a pretty good job breaking up the strips of sod and smoothing the field.
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tbran
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 6:15pm |
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"ran it as rich" - gas is opposite to diesel - the LEANER the gas mixture the more power - until it starts to 'ping' .
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DrAllis
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 6:55pm |
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Shift pattern 1-2.....3-5......4-6.....7-8. Bad third gears always pull a plow. They jump out of gear going downhill with a push behind you.
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MadCow
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 6:59pm |
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Don't believe that's true. Too lean and you're taking work to compress air that you aren't getting power from igniting. Too rich and you're sapping efficiency in the flame front, but you're ensuring completion of oxidation.
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dr p
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 7:09pm |
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I don't want to start a firestorm but trying to plow too deep to break up a hardpan isn't very efficient. Plow just deep enough to flip the sod then plant something with deep penetrating roots. Year two you could do vertical tillage.
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MadCow
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 7:13pm |
 DrAllis wrote:
Shift pattern 1-2.....3-5......4-6.....7-8. Bad third gears always pull a plow. They jump out of gear going downhill with a push behind you. |
That is counter intuitive gearing. I'm normally in high anyway, so 2,5,6,8. I've got totally flat fields and it never stays in. It's also starting to teach 4 gear it's bad habits, so I do eventually need to replace them both either way. And if I can't plow in 2, no way can I do 4 or 6. I'll give it a go with the cultivator.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 9:01pm |
dr p wrote:
I don't want to start a firestorm but trying to plow too deep to break up a hardpan isn't very efficient. Plow just deep enough to flip the sod then plant something with deep penetrating roots. Year two you could do vertical tillage. |
I would suggest tillage radishes, planted late august to early sept(mid atlantic). I've seen them go down 2', I think the claim is 2-1/2'-3'. Freeze kills them, so leave about 2 months to grow, before a killing freeze. Depending on how busy you are, at what time of year, subsoiler also helps break the plow pan... 
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MadCow
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 9:06pm |
DiyDave wrote:
dr p wrote:
I don't want to start a firestorm but trying to plow too deep to break up a hardpan isn't very efficient. Plow just deep enough to flip the sod then plant something with deep penetrating roots. Year two you could do vertical tillage. |
I would suggest tillage radishes, planted late august to early sept(mid atlantic). I've seen them go down 2', I think the claim is 2-1/2'-3'. Freeze kills them, so leave about 2 months to grow, before a killing freeze. Depending on how busy you are, at what time of year, subsoiler also helps break the plow pan... |
Broadcast? Do deer like em? Can you plant through them?
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 10:19pm |
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3-16’s is a lot of plow for a D15 series 1 in sod.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 4:37am |
I used a grass seeder box on a deep tine aerator, to seed them, but they can be broadcast or drilled in. Don't know whether deer like them, but cows used to pull them out whole, and chow down on them. looked like they was all smoking big cigars... As far as planting through them, yes, they rotted down well by the following spring.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 4:40am |
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That old plow isn't 16's.
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PaulB
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 7:02am |
MadCow wrote:
Thanks guys!
I tried messing with the crank, but it seemed like it didn't do anything. Too shallow and it wouldn't cut, and as soon as it started cutting it went as deep as it could go. So I adjusted in two turns from when it just started to cut and called it.
Best way I found to alter my depth was to up the traction booster, but I was being greedy and really wanted to get the sod gone and the good soil to the top. I also just really believed the tractor should be able to do it. I was hoping that pushing the motor to 2400RPM would give me series II levels of power and I wouldn't have to worry.
Seems like you're all mostly saying the tractor is fine and I don't know how to use the plow. Which is highly likely. The shares are also older than my house, so I'm sure that was a large part of my issue. The colturs were also retired and over lounging in the shade while I was trying to plow.
I'm not sure what cover boards are. But I do have the tails hanging off the mold boards. However, if I only went the 3" deep or so, the sod layer wouldn't properly flip over, and would just lay back into the furrow.
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As always people will grab a plow that was worn out many years a go and left to rust away, then think they can hook to it and do a first class job. Since NO-TILL has been the norm for half a century now, those of us with first hand experience of proper plowing are getting fewer and fewer. An operators manual for the plow would be a big help for a novice. For a plow to do a proper job ALL wearing parts need to be in good order. Worn shares will make a plow hard to get to go in the ground, then when it does it goes TOO deep. Also the landslides have a bearing on controlling the plows depth. Worn out plows are evident when you see a plow nosed in and leaning to the land side. A properly set plow will have the plow frame level with the ground when plowing at a proper depth for the bottoms. A 12" bottom should run about 7" max, a 14" bottom should only run about 8"-9" max and then a 16" bottom should run at about 9"10" max. Running deeper is possible, although the efficiency of turning and pulverizing the soil will suffer. Coverboards were not designed to "flip" sod, but to bury residual crop trash. To get sod to properly lay over, moldboard extensions are needed. Also properly set coulters are needed to cleanly cut the furrow wall for good turning of the sod.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 7:22am |
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I can only dream of doing that kind of plowing; I don't dare run above first gear half throttle with my John Deere Model A in my rocky ground.
The important thing is you are getting the job done, if first gear is required, just relax and enjoy the time well spent  |
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Mikez
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 7:59am |
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Post a picture of the plow
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AC720Man
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 8:38am |
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We have a Oliver 3 bottom plow for our D15, I would have to measure but I’m pretty sure it has 16” on it. We always plowed starting in 2nd low and then shifted to hi range. Did a really nice job and plowed that way for 30 plus years. It’s a good match for the D15.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 10:27am |
PaulB wrote:
MadCow wrote:
Thanks guys!
I tried messing with the crank, but it seemed like it didn't do anything. Too shallow and it wouldn't cut, and as soon as it started cutting it went as deep as it could go. So I adjusted in two turns from when it just started to cut and called it.
Best way I found to alter my depth was to up the traction booster, but I was being greedy and really wanted to get the sod gone and the good soil to the top. I also just really believed the tractor should be able to do it. I was hoping that pushing the motor to 2400RPM would give me series II levels of power and I wouldn't have to worry.
Seems like you're all mostly saying the tractor is fine and I don't know how to use the plow. Which is highly likely. The shares are also older than my house, so I'm sure that was a large part of my issue. The colturs were also retired and over lounging in the shade while I was trying to plow.
I'm not sure what cover boards are. But I do have the tails hanging off the mold boards. However, if I only went the 3" deep or so, the sod layer wouldn't properly flip over, and would just lay back into the furrow.
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As always people will grab a plow that was worn out many years a go and left to rust away, then think they can hook to it and do a first class job. Since NO-TILL has been the norm for half a century now, those of us with first hand experience of proper plowing are getting fewer and fewer. An operators manual for the plow would be a big help for a novice. For a plow to do a proper job ALL wearing parts need to be in good order. Worn shares will make a plow hard to get to go in the ground, then when it does it goes TOO deep. Also the landslides have a bearing on controlling the plows depth. Worn out plows are evident when you see a plow nosed in and leaning to the land side. A properly set plow will have the plow frame level with the ground when plowing at a proper depth for the bottoms. A 12" bottom should run about 7" max, a 14" bottom should only run about 8"-9" max and then a 16" bottom should run at about 9"10" max. Running deeper is possible, although the efficiency of turning and pulverizing the soil will suffer. Coverboards were not designed to "flip" sod, but to bury residual crop trash. To get sod to properly lay over, moldboard extensions are needed. Also properly set coulters are needed to cleanly cut the furrow wall for good turning of the sod. |
Very well said - thank you. There is a plethora of factors involved. A proper plow speed (3-4mph)can also result in similar residue/trash coverage. Wetter/higher clay/sod soils usually require a cover board if a clean coverage is desired.
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MadCow
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 10:39am |
PaulB wrote:
As always people will grab a plow that was worn out many years a go and left to rust away, then think they can hook to it and do a first class job. Since NO-TILL has been the norm for half a century now, those of us with first hand experience of proper plowing are getting fewer and fewer. An operators manual for the plow would be a big help for a novice. For a plow to do a proper job ALL wearing parts need to be in good order. Worn shares will make a plow hard to get to go in the ground, then when it does it goes TOO deep. Also the landslides have a bearing on controlling the plows depth. Worn out plows are evident when you see a plow nosed in and leaning to the land side. A properly set plow will have the plow frame level with the ground when plowing at a proper depth for the bottoms. A 12" bottom should run about 7" max, a 14" bottom should only run about 8"-9" max and then a 16" bottom should run at about 9"10" max. Running deeper is possible, although the efficiency of turning and pulverizing the soil will suffer. Coverboards were not designed to "flip" sod, but to bury residual crop trash. To get sod to properly lay over, moldboard extensions are needed. Also properly set coulters are needed to cleanly cut the furrow wall for good turning of the sod. |
I was running 7"-10"deep, was never consistent. But you mentioning not cutting in, then going too low, is almost exactly my issue. The shares weren't flat pointed, but they were far from razor sharp. Also, the "furrowside" (is that the right word) was raised up probably 3" or so from the landside. So when the tractor was sitting on level ground, the furrow side was 3" higher than the landside. However - it dug WAY deeper, and liked to pop out of the upper bale every once in awhile.
Also, I read your signature, and have to agree. Plowing was a blast, but it would have been more fun in second or third.
Allie was busy moving snow from the Christmas blizzard we had, and the plow is on the wrong side of the snowbanks for me to picture or measure - but I will get a picture and actually measure it next time I'm out.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 11:33am |
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Any properly set plow will be LEVEL side to side and front to back when at plowing depth. This means the right lift arm link is always shorter than the left lift arm link. Always an inch shorter but prob not more than 1 1/2" inches shorter.
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MadCow
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 12:06pm |
DrAllis wrote:
Any properly set plow will be LEVEL side to side and front to back when at plowing depth. This means the right lift arm link is always shorter than the left lift arm link. Always an inch shorter but prob not more than 1 1/2" inches shorter. |
Wouldn't it then depend on plow depth, since the furrow side wheel is in the furrow, and the tractor is leaning a furrow depth to the furrow side?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 12:16pm |
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YES !!!! But not as much as you might think !! level both ways whatever it takes !!!
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MadCow
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 1:11pm |
DrAllis wrote:
YES !!!! But not as much as you might think !! level both ways whatever it takes !!! |
I'll need a new leveling arm, mine is rusted into a single piece. Any ideas on where to get one?
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PaulB
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Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 1:15pm |
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I have many various parts available from plows. A picture of what you have would be needed to match, as there were many styles used over the years.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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