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dee_veloper 
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 Topic: Pittsburgh's Frick Park collapses
Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 4:09pm |
How does a bridge get to such a state of disrepair that it completely collapses ? Bridges are inspected regularly. The investigation on this is going to be very interesting.
https://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2022/01/28/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-forbes-braddock-avenue-point-breeze-squirrel-hill/stories/202201280075
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 4:20pm |
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inspected by WHO ? .... Govt paper work so someone has a job... Probably "inspected" it from 5 miles away setting in his office !
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Tracy Martin TN
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 4:46pm |
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 5:26pm |
I was going to say 'What a Frick'en disaster'.....feel sorry for the people on the bridge at the time though.
so where's the POTUS ?? He WAS supposed to visit the area from what I heard, be GREAT PR to go to the bridge and say 'this is why we need the bill passed, now'..... type of speech.
Edited by jaybmiller - 28 Jan 2022 at 5:28pm
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Codger
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 5:27pm |
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Forecast is a lot of CYA, and Finger Pointing.
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dr p
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 5:56pm |
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Classmate of mine from Cornell and her mother died in the schoharie bridge disaster in the 80s. That bridge failed because it was cheaper to put the piling in the river instead of pounding them into the bedrock. The dirt eventually eroded around the support, big flood hit and 10 people died. What a waste over money
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DiyDave
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 6:20pm |
My guess is the government that was supposed to inspect it... 
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 6:33pm |
 jaybmiller wrote:
I was going to say 'What a Frick'en disaster'.....feel sorry for the people on the bridge at the time though.
so where's the POTUS ?? He WAS supposed to visit the area from what I heard, be GREAT PR to go to the bridge and say 'this is why we need the bill passed, now'..... type of speech.
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That exactly why this particular bridge ‘just happened to collapse’. There is no such thing as a coincidence, when politicians are involved.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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mdm1
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 7:02pm |
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Allegedly last inspected Sept 2021.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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dee_veloper
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 7:07pm |
mdm1 wrote:
Allegedly last inspected Sept 2021. |
The question is who did the inspection ? Normally, government agencies don't staff up for this type of specialty work, they just contract it out to engineering firms.
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Don't confuse my personality with my attitude.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 7:43pm |
Then whatever agency signed off on the inspection report...
See the bridge collapse, downstairs...
Edited by DiyDave - 28 Jan 2022 at 8:02pm
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JohnColo
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 1:15am |
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I read where the inspection reported the bridge was in poor condition but it was still used. Saw an interview of the bus driver, sounded pretty exciting for a few seconds. Lucky it happened early in the morning instead of rush hour.
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DMiller
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 6:38am |
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Have a few in MO will likely do that if not replaced, cut the Load Limits to VW ratings then ONE lane traffic signs and lines. Concrete crumbling, some holes driving across Exposed and NO Concrete rerod, steel underneath just in shreds.
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Morpar55
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 9:03am |
So while I completely agree if a politician is involved there is likely to be something bad going on behind the scenes, I don't think anyone can disagree this country has needed some money put into our infrastructure for a long time. Whatever political leanings one has roads, water supply systems, and sewers all serve the public good and should NEVER have gotten to the state a lot of them are in. Our electrical grids and pipelines (IMHO) get to be a slightly different issue. While they are important for our society as a whole they are still owned by private companies in general. I'm not sure how I feel about our tax dollars going to companies to help keep what they own in good condition or expand it for more capacity and profits. If the taxes don't get spent on these items then either the grid crumbles and people go without power or prices go up even more. But why should "my" taxes be used to support a private enterprise which I gain no profits from UNLESS I am a stockholder? No simple answers here, other than the politicians need to ACTUALLY be non-partisan and look out for the people they are supposed to represent. Hope I didn't cross the line on this, I was trying to avoid being political.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 9:31am |
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Part of the problem with the Power Company is that the GOVT FKED that up also... DEREGULATE in many States... Govt lets ANYBODY use MY POWER LINES... WHY ? Someone purchases a BLOCK of power and sells to MY CUSTOMERS on MY LINE and UNDERCUTS me ??..... WHY should I FIX THE LINES and EXPAND ??... This is not 1980... GOVT is the problem, ALWAYS has been.
Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Jan 2022 at 9:32am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 10:51am |
simple solution to have great roads and bridges.... ...redirect MOST of the 'free cheeses' TO Infrastructure AND get it DONE.
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Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Tad Wicks
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:50am |
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With the sad state of affairs that is our government comprised of liars, cheaters and thieves, no doubt funds where redirected into somebody's pocket or BLM. One had best brace for much more of the same as our infrastructure collapses in on itself much the same as this bridge, so sad.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 12:12pm |
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Everything has a LIFESPAN - number of compressions , design weight , length of service at certain loads . resonance of vehicle travel and material used to meet the specs.
from some pictures that were posted RUST to members was beyond the lifespan and it was a disaster in the making a long time back .
Few years back I 35W bridge in Mpls collapsed - going back it was learned the tie plate in understructure were to weak for design load - so the bridge was underbuilt for the intended use - a disaster waiting to happen - Not a Accident to happen. but a impending collapse at some future time .
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 12:19pm |
Yes, but we have to send money oversea to support forgien countries
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dee_veloper
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 1:33pm |
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Just the cost of removing that debris would probably have paid for dozens of repairs.
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Don't confuse my personality with my attitude.
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Mikez
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 1:48pm |
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should be replacing this stuff instead of bike paths.
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orangeman
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 2:26pm |
Probably more than what most want to read. This document provides background and food for thoughtful comment. See link here: https://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/PubsForms/Publications/PUB%20238.pdf
~ Orangeman
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PaulB
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 3:23pm |
I find it amazing that some of the infrastructure that was made 2000 years ago is still doing its job as intended and things built 50 years ago are crumbling or have already been torn down. Less than a mile from my house is a bridge that was built in the 1800s is still standing and carrying 80,000 pound truck traffic daily. It seems everything today is just built to minimum specifications. With that being said I hope this is a wake up call to everyone, that we need to get on track of maintaining our highway system.
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Dave in PA
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 4:45pm |
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I have crossed that bridge lots of times, my son did, until Thursday, like 3 times a week. I am not going to give my thoughts now, got to go! But will be back tomorrow with my opinion!!! BUT THANK GOD no own was KILLED!!
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 6:52pm |
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Ever watch Engineering Disasters? Was an episode recently showing bridge collapses. From lack of maintenance to poor designs, this happens too often. Rare to see anyone over build anything anymore.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:01pm |
What needs to be kept in forefront:
If you make a graph of years, and start that graph at 1880, and increment it regularly to 1990, you will notice that there's a very steep rise in the number of bridges built in 1890, and another at 1910, and a skyrocket to 1930... plateau until 1950.... and then the volume fell off to about 25% from 1950 until 1975, then it fell off another 70% from 1975 through 1990.
Why?
To understand this, we need to realize why, and how, and the world events occurring during these times.
Most bridge-building prior to 1880 was for railroad use... and it was primarily wood trestles, as iron wasn't entirely suitable, and steel was still very expensive... and road-going vehicles were rated in 'real horsepower'... based on the size and quantity of horses in the TEAM... or oxen... or mules.
That doesn't mean big bridges weren't built... but they weren't built for MOTORCARS or MOTORTRUCKS.
The early automobile age arrived at the same time the cost of steel production started falling... and there's no small coincedence... steelmaking is an economy of scale... the more you make, the more efficient a process becomes, and the compartively less it will cost... and during the late 'teens, the steelmaking process improvements proliferated to industrial centers all over the US, and thus, the boom of steel production took off, which meant more materials available to build MORE INFRASTRUCTURE, which meant the cost to industrialize became much lower!!!
With more cars, came more people who wanted to drive, so more roads (study the Lincoln Highway history to see what that was all about), and more roads, meant more bridges too.
A phenominal amount of those bridges were prefabricated by outfits like American Bridge Company... they were basically 'kits', and teams of ironworkers travelled the country, set up work camps, and would assemble steel bridges in literally WEEKS... and those bridges are still seen all over our country.
The last really big bridge-building boom was during the interstate highway project. After that, the process fell way off... and with it, our huge steelmaking fell off a little, too.
Several factors have since reduced our steelmaking industry to only a tiny fraction of what it was THEN. Building new bridges now, is a much more costly circumstance than it was eight decades ago.
Most of the earliest bridges have been bypassed and replaced by larger, newer, stronger bridges... but even the replacements were eventually overrun by heavier, faster loading.
Fast forward 60 years... we still have that huge quantity of bridges, but we're not replacing them, and they are NOT locked in a sealed container. Concrete and steel do NOT last forever.
People get so used to a bridge being somewhere, and don't see what aging does to a civil structure.
Administrators try to 'economize' on solutions.... kick-the-can... squeak another year out... it's short-timer's syndrome all over again.
Politicians don't want big expendatures to fall 'on their watch'... so they keep it quiet until it suits their narrative to scream about it, then they use it as a whipping-stick against their adversaries, and when they finally put through an allocation of funds, they deal it out in pork, such that there's no real funding left to do anything more than a patch-up.
And then there's a failure... with lots of finger-pointing and shouting...
...and again, it's politicians.
A large volume of bridge failures occur because the foundations wash out... it's called scouring, and it occurs because a piling, amidst a flow of current, causes turbulence- eddies... whirlpools... and those whirlpools dig deep holes that undermine the foundation. The treatment (not cure!) for scouring, is applying riprap around the pilings which forces the eddies to work on riprap, rather than the riverbed. Unfortunately, applying riprap occupies area that water cannot flow through, thus, the constriction profile of the waterway occurs, which is also not a good thing... so they have to be careful, and frequent with their riprap, and they need to send divers down to inspect footings.
Bridges are not eternal, nor are they perfect. They need to be protected, maintained, inspected, and replaced.
Edited by DaveKamp - 29 Jan 2022 at 11:04pm
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Dave in PA
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Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 6:41am |
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Now to vent. The media is not saying who did the last inspection, but I believe the bridge is owned and maintained by the city of Pittsburgh. The issue, this is my opinion, is the city! The city is strong tight knit, unit. To get a job, need to be a party of their choice, Democrate, be related to someone is office, or a current employee. So with that said, the old Mayor, wanted bike lanes over anything else in the city, no not a joke!! He was a joke to the city, but kept getting re-elected. The city council just gave themselves a 20% pay raise, going from appox. 65k to 80k a year. The roads in the snow are horrible, the roads are horrible, etc. There are workers that make more in overtime a year, than their 40 hour a week pay would be. They tax money in the city is spent on fancy crap instead of NEEDED safety, inspections, and needed expenses.
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DMiller
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Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 6:51am |
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Same holds true for cities in the Midwest Dave, KC, STL, Springfield MO are examples that depend of OUTSIDE of the city tax moneys from State and Federal levels to repair City Roads or transit structures. The graft and corruption is boundless as to what they spend and to whom they shovel the moneys to where in most cases work is never completed or even tolerable if is completed.
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omahagreg
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Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 8:11am |
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In 2005 I had a rural Iowa FedEx Home delivery route! I owned the truck-had it tagged with 6 ton plates. I had a package going to a farmhouse but I had to reroute twice because 2 bridges were rated at 5 ton! When I got there I mentioned it to the farmer-he said you would have been fine, we go over them with 12 ton all the time! I went OFF on him saying because of that they might have failed under my 6 ton truck and it would be my fault-NO THANKS!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 2:38pm |
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No different north of the 49th.... idiot 'engineers', use rebar in concrete bridges.... road crews use SALT in winter... yup, don't take an Einstein to figure out WHY bridges fail.... They've 'repaired' the same bridge 3 times since '67 when built.. curious thing, concrete is failing ,again....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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