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Phase converter VFD questions
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8070nc View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Location: North Carolina
Points: 505 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8070nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 10:27am
I would not have a millimg machine without an inverter driving the spindle motor. I do ridgid tapping and I can set inverter to operate the spindle so gently I tapped 10/32 in half inch material. When the tap gets to the rigjt depth
I stop the spindle flip a switch to reverse and after the tap starts to back out I can turn the speed up on the spindle and speed up the operation. You can run the start on the table feed through a relay om the inverter and a hand auto switch so in auto if the spindle overloads it stop the table feed. Theres so many things you can do with an inverter to make the mill more enjoyable and productive is all im saying. I do this stuff for a living now so its easy for me and I undertand that but
it wasnt always that way.
I bluffed until I figuted it out
1984 80780
1957 D14
DES 300 with 25000 engine
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Arkansas
Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by 8070nc 8070nc wrote:

I would not have a millimg machine without an inverter driving the spindle motor. I do ridgid tapping and I can set inverter to operate the spindle so gently I tapped 10/32 in half inch material. When the tap gets to the rigjt depth
I stop the spindle flip a switch to reverse and after the tap starts to back out I can turn the speed up on the spindle and speed up the operation. You can run the start on the table feed through a relay om the inverter and a hand auto switch so in auto if the spindle overloads it stop the table feed. Theres so many things you can do with an inverter to make the mill more enjoyable and productive is all im saying. I do this stuff for a living now so its easy for me and I undertand that but
it wasnt always that way.
I bluffed until I figuted it out

I agree and the more I read the more I like the idea.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81267 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 9:08pm
90% of the cost of the VFD or Phase converter is getting from single phase to 3 phase and making it large enough components to carry several amps...

The VFD then has a small BRAIN (chip) inside that you can vary the frequency, startup ( rollup) time, etc ........... on the Phase converter, they leave out the chip and everything is preset at some constant.... That little chip does a lot, but dont cost much to add.. so the VFD and the Phase converter are basically the same cost. 
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2023 at 3:52am
How heavy of wire do I need to run from the breaker box to the phase converter?
3 wire with ground?
10 gauge?
12 Gauge?
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2023 at 3:55am
How heavy of wire do I need to run from the breaker box to the phase converter?
3 wire with ground?
10 gauge?
12 Gauge?
How heavy of breaker?

Edited by Thad in AR. - 07 Feb 2023 at 3:56am
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81267 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2023 at 8:06am
a horse power is 750 watts... watts are volts x amps  , so at 240 volts, you using  3 amps..

for 2 HP that is 6 amps ........... 6 amps is about a 16 gauge wire which is not even available for a house.. I would run a standard  12-2 with ground romex ( or 12-3)  for the power inlet from the breaker box.... then individual 12 gauge wires from the VFD to the motor... That would be PLENTY..  12 gauge is 20 amps.


Edited by steve(ill) - 07 Feb 2023 at 8:07am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2023 at 11:30am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

a horse power is 750 watts... watts are volts x amps  , so at 240 volts, you using  3 amps..

for 2 HP that is 6 amps ........... 6 amps is about a 16 gauge wire which is not even available for a house.. I would run a standard  12-2 with ground romex ( or 12-3)  for the power inlet from the breaker box.... then individual 12 gauge wires from the VFD to the motor... That would be PLENTY..  12 gauge is 20 amps.


It would be great to use 12 gauge wire. I have a full roll of 12-2 with ground.
Still has the $18.50 price tag on it from Lowes.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 5:12am
Been researching VFD’s this morning. Most everything in the size I need is back ordered.
Finding the same with rotary phase converter components.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 22474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 6:08am

yes, even these guys that I've bought lots of 'stuff' in the past.
 sadly prices are up..even the wireless,no abttery needed dingdong bells
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:59am
Pulled the cover this morning.
The power feed motor is 3 phase 1/4 hp
220/440
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 81267 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 12:45pm
Thad, i went to AMAZON and typed in VFD and saw several that say " in stock, ready to ship".... Im not guaranteeing that...... Name brands  are ???????  If you see one you like, i would check the REVIEWS and make sure that they have sold 80 of them and 70 of the reviews are GOOD...
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 4:25am
Ok guys I’ll have a rotary phase converter sitting here and a 5 hp 3 phase motor to go with it.
I’m gonna try to run the 220 circuit this morning. I have folks coming to pickup tractors this morning so I don’t know how far I’ll get.
Hope to hear it run this weekend.
I’ll run it on the rpc for a while and most likely buy a VFD for it.
I now own the rpc so I’ll save it for whatever comes along.
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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Points: 13579 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 4:55am

   4;25 in the AM, Thad ,,,,?? Sounds like ole Joe pulling an All Nighter,,,,???  LOLLOL I believe they call it "Anticipation"
 Chit,,you'll be having that machine ready to make chips soon,,,,I best be getting my chit together and get down there quick,,,,,,Wink
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 5:16am
Originally posted by desertjoe desertjoe wrote:



   4;25 in the AM, Thad ,,,,?? Sounds like ole Joe pulling an All Nighter,,,,???  LOLLOL I believe they call it "Anticipation"
 Chit,,you'll be having that machine ready to make chips soon,,,,I best be getting my chit together and get down there quick,,,,,,Wink

Joe I always get up between 3:00 and 4:00 am.
Course I go to bed at 8:00
I’m still a long way from making chips.
I’ve done a lot of cleaning on the machine but have a lot more to do.
It’s gonna need new belts and at this point I have no collets.
I’m going to get it up and running before I spend anymore on it.

Edited by Thad in AR. - 25 Feb 2023 at 5:21am
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Points: 13579 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 9:28am

    OK,,I get it Thad,,,,Clap The beauty of doing that is like a car or tractor restoration is even tho the doors, fenders, tires and all that extra stuff are still in the corner,,,you can get extreme pleasure in being able to walk up to it,,,put a spark in it and listen to the hum,,,,,ClapClap
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Points: 81267 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 9:33am
Nothing wrong with a Rotary to use it forever... unless you decide you need some SPEED CONTROL.. you get that with the VFD..

How does the rotary START UP ?  Do you have a momentary button and a start, or pull rope or does it have its own timer/ start circuit ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Points: 9455 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Nothing wrong with a Rotary to use it forever... unless you decide you need some SPEED CONTROL.. you get that with the VFD..

How does the rotary START UP ?  Do you have a momentary button and a start, or pull rope or does it have its own timer/ start circuit ?

This one has a starting circuit to start the idler motor.
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