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DSeries4 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Topic: Perkins 4.236 differences
Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 10:55pm |
I have discovered an Allis 170 diesel close to me which has had the engine in pieces for the last 20+ years. It has been stored inside, but the head and sleeves are pretty rusty. The owner says he has everything for it.
I am just wondering about switching it out with another Perkins 236 from a Massey tractor. I found a wrecking yard that has a 236 out of a Massey 375 tractor. Tractordata.com shows that it was built between 1987 and 1997.
Any idea how the transplant would go and would there be any problems moving parts and accessories from the old engine to the newer one? Many thanks!
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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allisbred
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Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Location: Hanover Pa
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Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 5:33am |
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I am going to see what some of the experts on here say. I know my 1987 cat 416 backhoe w/4.236 and my 1970 AC 175 4.236 blocks are different in many ways externally including freeze plug holes. I’m just guessing there were many revisions over the years.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 6:23am |
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I think Tbran had noted some time back, even between the same age AC 170 and MF 175 the blocks were different, especially where the front axle support attaches to the front face of the block.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
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Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 7:16am |
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I was told that there are blocks with front mounts and others with side mounts. I think the MF tractors were a structural block. Have a 236 in a 715B AC TLB and several in JCB telahandlers.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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farmtoybuilder
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Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 1:36pm |
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Massey tractor blocks are different than AC's were . Perkins made many different blocks, pans and such for different applications.
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5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.
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Tom59
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Joined: 27 Feb 2021
Location: Lebanon Tenness
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Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 6:11am |
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I found that out in a post I made about the performance difference in Allis Chalmers and Massey Ferguson tractors with the Perkins 236 and 248 engines. Was told they were different engines, only thing common about them was the cubic inch displacement. Look at the engines at AGCO Partsbook and you see the difference in a Perkins engine in a MF and AC .
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 7:50am |
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The injection pump may be the same between some Perkins AC's and some Masseys. Blocks and heads do vary a lot, depending what chassis it was spec'd for.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 27 Jun 2021 at 8:49pm |
Went back and had another look at it today. Several parts were missing that I could see.
The guy actually wanted over $5000 for it! Serious, that's not a typo! I politely told him he was out of his mind and left. I know for a fact he didn't pay anywhere close to that when he bought it. Still shaking my head...
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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JC-WI
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Posted: 27 Jun 2021 at 11:13pm |
Seen a running 170 diesel at an auction Saturday, NO 3PT at all on it, had been a loader tractor and peddles were wore smooth. If I remember right, it went for 4700.00 dollars.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 7:02am |
Tough Engine. We had a 180 Massey when I was a kid (180 is a row crop version of the 175) and it was a tough tractor. Wish I still had it.......sold at auction years ago and tried to find it again but struck out
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
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Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 8:38am |
 DSeries4 wrote:
Went back and had another look at it today. Several parts were missing that I could see.
The guy actually wanted over $5000 for it! Serious, that's not a typo! I politely told him he was out of his mind and left. I know for a fact he didn't pay anywhere close to that when he bought it. Still shaking my head...
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Some people are on crack! It's a $500 tractor! I am not sure why some people think they are sitting on a gold mine!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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orangeman
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Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 12:55pm |
The original 4.236 engine was designed in two configurations of cylinder block to suit the vehicle/industrial and tractor specifications respectively. Although originated in 236 cublic inch swept volume initially, the engine served as the basis for the 4.248, 4.224 and 4.204 engines. The 248, 212 and 204's were developed for Massey tractors.
There were turbocharged 4.236 variants developed for all applications except marine applications. There were also gas versions of the 4.236 with spark ignitiion and carburation in support of gasoline and LPG usage. These were typcially found in Forklift applications.
With respect to the variant engines spawned by the 4.236 all were 5" stroke with the exception of the 4.212 which utilized a 4.5" stroke. Both the 4.236 and the 4.212 had 3.875'' bores.
I have found no information on interchange between the Massey and Allis Perkins engined tractors. I woud think that someone at Perkins could offer insight on that matter.
More information on the Perkins 4.236 and related engine family can be found in a book titled - A Square Deal All Around - The History of Perkins Engines 1932 to 2006 by David Boulton.
Good Luck DSeries4 on this project!
Orangeman
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Tom59
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Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 6:12am |
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I got a Massey 275 tractor with the Perkins 248 engine in it, it a good running engine. I noticed the Perkins 248 was also put in the Allis Chalmers 175 tractors ( was told a spec out version 248 for Allis ).
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DrAllis
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Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 6:26am |
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Early 175's were 236 and later were 248.
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