Unofficial Allis Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Oil Bath Air Cleaner ??

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
FREEDGUY View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oil Bath Air Cleaner ??
    Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 7:58pm
Is it a safe "assumption" that the oil bath filter was due to the lack of a "dry" filter ? If so, were the model "T'S" in the early years filtered with the oil bath ? I recall "dumping " the canister on the WD, but not on the D17 (series 2)??
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
AaronSEIA View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Mt Pleasant, IA
Points: 2391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 8:12pm
Oil bath at the time was the best way.  I don't think the D17 had a dry filter till the series 3.  Maybe 4.  Series 2 is for sure oil bath.  Some say it's still the best at filtering air.
AaronSEIA
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 14634
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 8:14pm
Not sure I fully understand the question, but here goes: D-17 series 3 and 4 were dry type air filters as were D-15 series 2. Also D-19 and D-21's were dry type. ALL hundred series were dry type (160-170-175-180-185-190-190XT-200-210-220). Everything else is oil bath, as was your D-17 series 2.
Back to Top
FREEDGUY View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Not sure I fully understand the question, but here goes: D-17 series 3 and 4 were dry type air filters as were D-15 series 2. Also D-19 and D-21's were dry type. ALL hundred series were dry type (160-170-175-180-185-190-190XT-200-210-220). Everything else is oil bath, as was your D-17 series 2.
 
Thanks, my ?? was mainly "was there no dry filter" technology previous to the mid 60's LOL
Back to Top
LionelinKY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Radcliff,KY
Points: 632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LionelinKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 8:48pm
I believe that the technology was there since most, if not all, automakers were using dry air filters by that time. Most likely was just an issue of acceptance and utilization of the technology. Oil bath air filters had been around for decades and used by everybody. Some just switched sooner than others.
"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 14634
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 8:51pm
Oil bath air cleaners required more attention. Technically that oil cup was to be changed DAILY !!   Well, that never happened at our place !!!  Some dry types had an automatic dust unloader to make attention much less.
Back to Top
MACK View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 6889
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 9:00pm
A lot of old engineers would not change their minds.                MACK
Back to Top
Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Location: New Lowell, Ont
Points: 772
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 9:11pm
Oil bath air cleaners worked pretty good. Probably a lot cheaper to maintain than the paper ones. Maybe a little less wasteful than the paper ones. Air filter on a big truck now is $80 to $150 dollars. Probably same for the big new tractors.
Back to Top
AC720Man View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
Points: 2417
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 10:28pm
I think the oil bath does a better job at dust collection but also thought daily cleaning was kinda ridiculous unless you was in a dusty field day in and day out disking or plowing. Buying cheap oil made it more practical. I certainly don’t change it that often on my WD especially if its not dirty. You would go through a lot of oil in a year if you go by the owners manual. I would compare it to my wife’s Rainbow vacuum cleaner that uses water as the filter. It does an incredible job of filtering dust/dirt in the tank. There is absolutely zero dust expelled back into the air as it cleans. Similar results with the oil bath. Actually a very well engineered way of keeping dirt out of the carb. Now I’m wondering, could water replace the oil? Or would it splash too much? Probably so since oil is heavier.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
Back to Top
Lars(wi) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Permian Basin
Points: 3379
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 10:41pm
The water would evaporate away in short order.
Where We Go One We Go All
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 6436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 10:57pm
In the days of model T's there were no oil or air filters
Back to Top
JoeM(GA) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Cumming,GA
Points: 3875
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeM(GA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 5:49am
The suction of air pulls the oil up into the screen, water would not cling to the screen which is what traps the dirt, then the dirt and oil fall back into the cup and the sinks to the bottom. That’s how I understand it to work.
Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's,
Ford 345C TLB
Back to Top
jaybmiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 16288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 6:03am
dang, I'm supposed to clean my air filter ??? lol...
'somehow' I have a complete spare unit for my D-14s..

no air filters on snowblowers.....btw
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
Back to Top
john(MI) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: SE MI
Points: 9193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 8:35am
I've seen on some tractors, mainly pullers, where they have installed a paper filter in a cone shaped holder, with a rubber tube going to the carb.    Wouldn't that allow less air in?

When I was a kid we never had the air cleaner hooked up on our WC.  It was our primary tillage tractor.  That thing ran like a tank.  I started driving it when I was 10, and we had it a few years before that, and we were still using it when I left for the AF at 19. 

It was a narrow front tractor and we had to drive it across the creek to get to other fields.  One location we had to drive up a steep bank at a diagonal.  That tractor never tipped over going up that bank, but it sure made me nervous. 
D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
Back to Top
Robert Musgrave View Drop Down
Bronze Level Access
Bronze Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: SE Wisconsin
Points: 193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Musgrave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 9:24am
There are no Air Filters on snow blowers because there is no dust in the air during use!  However, carburetors have additional shielding because of snow melting and turning to ice/water.  Also notice how sheet metal goes around the muffler to help "pre-heat" air for intake/carb. protection.  R. Musgrave
Back to Top
Brian G. NY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: 12194
Points: 2067
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 9:35am
I think the oil bath system is very good at filtering when maintained as recommended. However, probably due to it being a PITA, they were rarely well maintained.
Apparently, at one time, Ford felt oil bath was superior to paper filters. Way up into the 70s they offered an oil bath option for their heavy trucks that were used under heavy dust conditions.
Back to Top
ACinSC View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Location: South Carolina
Points: 1488
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ACinSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 10:01am
Thanks Brian , I was wondering when the auto industry went to paper air filters . Pretty sure the 1949 Caddy I used to drive was oil bath . Interesting post .
Back to Top
DaveKamp View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 4451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by Robert Musgrave Robert Musgrave wrote:

There are no Air Filters on snow blowers because there is no dust in the air during use!  However, carburetors have additional shielding because of snow melting and turning to ice/water.  Also notice how sheet metal goes around the muffler to help "pre-heat" air for intake/carb. protection.  R. Musgrave


Dust IS significantly lower when conditions are most likely snow, but the biggest reason, is that a snowblower, in operation, melts significant snow, and incoming air of the process is always extremely humid.  Apply a paper filter to a working snowblower, and you'll have a frozen filter in very short order.

The filter's job is to prevent abrasives from causing rapid internal engine wear... and any engine operating within 3000ft of the ground will be swallowing dust.  If you're wondering how abrasive soil is, look at the moldboard after you've pulled two rows... or fire up your chain saw, take a test cut in a tree limb, then stuff the nose of the bar into the dirt at full throttle, and try again... it'll be dulled instantly.

The oil-bath air cleaner is substantially more effective, at a lower restriction, than a paper filter of the SAME FILTRATION capacity.  Although it was much higher maintenance than a paper filter, the oil used in the bath need not be 'new' oil... it was often reclaimed from the crankcase.

The sump of An oil-bath filter will naturally allow atmospheric moisture (condensation) from both outside, and inside the engine to fall to the bottom, just like the sediment bowl under the fuel tank.  As long as that sump doesn't fill completely, the oil-bath filter will be just fine... but if it fills, and the ambient temp falls below freezing, the engine won't start.  LOL

The reason why the oil-bath filter went away in automotive, and the paper filter took over, was because the automotive application didn't work as hard as the agricultural, didn't work in as dusty an environment, and didn't need to last as long.

Neither my '24 Model T, nor my '29 Ford A pickup have ANY air filter... but one COULD purchase one for the A as an accessory.... but disposable paper filters weren't particularly known then.  Instead, the filter consisted of a wire basket, around which one would wrap oil-dampened cotton cloth.  It was necessary to make regular mixture adjustments to compensate for the restriction, but on a Model A, one simply reached over to the passenger side and turned the choke knob a little.

Neither the Model T, nor Model A Ford had air (or oil) filters, as the leader's 'edict' stated neither 'needed' air filters. It was considered acceptable by the designers for these engines to get 'minor overhauls' averaged every 4 to 6,000 miles... about 250 hours.

As time went on, longer intervals became expected.  Military engines fitted with filtration proved the concept to millions of GIs.  Metallurgy improved, and protective plating processes appeared.  Adding filters was a simpl, quick and easy way to extend the MTBOH... and the manufacturer took advantage of the circumstance by up-selling dealer service to include filters into the oil change package.  To improve the margin even more, they invented specially-fitted filters so that a 'standard industrial' filter system couldn't be used... and then contracted major manufacturers with 'sole source/exclusive sourcing' contract to make the special filters available only through dealers, so that aftermarket supply wouldn't exist.

Which sounds suspicously familiar... and I hear the song "everything old is new again'  playing in the background...


Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
Back to Top
steve(ill) View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 59900
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 12:53pm
It was considered acceptable by the designers for these engines to get 'minor overhauls' averaged every 4 to 6,000 miles... about 250 hours.

YEP... the dont BUILD THEM LIKE THEY USE TO !!!......... GREAT !!  Thumbs Up
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
Back to Top
FREEDGUY View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

In the days of model T's there were no oil or air filters
 OUCH !! what was the "protection" for them ??
Back to Top
caledonian View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2016
Location: Nebraska
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caledonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 6:40pm
Our 1967 Ford pickup with a 352 cu in V8 used a oil bath air cleaner. In our D17 and WD's they were a good way to use up used oil.
Back to Top
FREEDGUY View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2021 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by caledonian caledonian wrote:

Our 1967 Ford pickup with a 352 cu in V8 used a oil bath air cleaner. In our D17 and WD's they were a good way to use up used oil.
If memory serves, dad ran a '65 flare-side 4 speed stick that hauled 1000's of hogs/1000's of bushels of ear corn to the local elevator that RAISED the front end of the truck to dump into the "pit" Wink !! Thanks for that memory Clap !!
Back to Top
Boss Man View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Location: Greenleaf, WI
Points: 559
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 3:41pm
Early Fordsons used water bowl air cleaners. Problem is people forgot to drain them and the bowls cracked in the winter. Oil was an improvement unless the cup filled with water sitting outside. Didn't bust the cup but did cause it to rust out with time.
Back to Top
1963D17 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2021
Location: Alvord, Iowa
Points: 25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1963D17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2021 at 10:49pm
My 1956 Pontiac is oil bath. I think air flow to the size of the oil bowl was the limiting factor. For example when a M & W turbo was installed on a Farmall 560 a dry air filter was recommended. Likely why the D19 was always a dry filter.
Back to Top
bgengler30 View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Location: Billings MO
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bgengler30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 9:43am
Where does one find a new air filter for D17 series 2. I found some online but not sure if they would work. Most filters say it would work on SN 4000 and up. My tractor SN is 3052
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 14634
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 11:38am
At D-17 serial number 42,001 and up they used a horizontally mounted "dry-type" air cleaner/filter. This was used on series 3 and 4 models. Your tractor should have a vertically mounted oil-bath design.  You want the whole oil-bath air cleaner assembly ??
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.140 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum