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Ranse 
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 Topic: New Forum / odd thing
Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 10:06pm |
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I joined a new forum the other day. It's " The Shooters Forum", I think that's the name anyway. I don't like it as well as this forum. The format is similar to this one but seems harder to use to me. Their rules are also similar, but they seem stricter about going off topic and posting things in the wrong category. And the one point they really wanted to drive home to new comers is "DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GUN IS WORTH". They wanted to make it clear they aren't an appraisal site.
The odd thing I'm referring to is when I posted my first thread/topic. When I clicked on the subject box to type my title, all the titles from my old threads from this forum popped up. The same way they do when I start a new thread here. I didn't expect to see that, and I'm don't know why it happened. I used a different user name and password for the new forum, but of coarse the same email. Are all forums connected? The only thing I can figure is it has something to do with my own laptop, but I really don't have a clue.
I probably won't visit this new forum much. I just had a few questions about ballistics I had trouble finding good answers for on the internet. I thought it would be interesting to talk to some people about it. It's a seems like a pretty good forum for that.
Edited by Ranse - 26 Feb 2019 at 10:12pm
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farmboy520
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Posted: 27 Feb 2019 at 9:08am |
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It is either your laptop or your web browser. Most likely it is your browser. I know my browser likes to keep all the things I type in boxes to pull up later. There is a way to shut it off but I'm not sure totally on what your using.
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 27 Feb 2019 at 9:10am |
Ranse, the topic thing is probably your browser.
Each forum has it's own personality, good or bad. This one and Red Power are the friendliest (and most helpful) ones I've found. I've been on a few others over the years, and still read some every day but post little. Fishing forums can be bad, the egos are crazy.
What kind of ballistics questions are you looking for answers to?
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Ranse
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Posted: 27 Feb 2019 at 6:13pm |
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Thanks for satisfying my curiosity guys. I figured it was something on my end and not the forums themselves. The browser theory sounds plausible to me. It's not a problem I'm worried about, although it is a bit annoying.
IBWD MIke,
the question I asked was about the light grain bullets available for the 30-06. I wondered if they had less drop than the typical heavier bullets normally use in the 30-06. I thought maybe they would have similar characteristics as a smaller caliber, such as the .243. I was hoping to improve my long range capabilities.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 10:36am |
Ranse, a lighter bullet (assuming good BC) will definitely shoot flatter than a heavier one, at practical hunting range. I've had this debate with long range shooters who like heavy bullets, they do have the advantage past say 600 yds. I don't shoot at game that far away so I stay on the lighter side of the spectrum.
Will a 125gr. bullet make your 30-06 into a .220 Swift? No. But it will be a lot better than a 180 grain.
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Ranse
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 3:09pm |
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IBWD MIke,
When I say long range I mean 3 to 400 yards. I probably should have said that. I'm using 150gr and from a steady platform I'm pretty consistence @ 150yrd. But it's 370 yards from my barn to the edge of the woods. That's were I usually see coyotes occasionally. I wouldn't shoot at a deer over 100yds but I will a coyote. I'm just trying to increase my chances.
The answers I got from the shooter's forum weren't encouraging. Most said lighter bullets don't stabilize well in .30 calibers, and mostly won't improve one's accuracy. They suggested I stick with the 150s, but buy better grade ammo, and practice.
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 3:30pm |
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What browser? It is probably the autofill feature sensing a topic subject field, I get the same thing in Firefox for any name/address/email forms. Sometimes it's helpful
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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DMiller
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 4:05pm |
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I own .06 in a Browning, had one in a Remington, prefer the .308 to the .06 round and a .243 to the .308 for varmints which is a necked down .308.
Have a Ruger M77 bolt 243 I prefer for the Coyotes at distance, use 105gr soft points for distance as they have figured out can reach them pretty consistently at ~300 yds, they stepped out to ~400 and I have hit one so far. 85gr will shoot flatter but not the knockdown or kill rate.
30.06 I have I used 150 and 180gr. The 180gr are round soft point and do the most damage, the 150gr are conical soft point where I saw more thru and thru with them unless hit something large like a femur or a backbone or skull. .308 typical load was 110gr. moves faster.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 5:26pm |
I like the 22-250 for the long range stuff. Gotta mauser based rifle, put a big scope on it. longest range I collected a groundhog at was close to 450yds. Hadda guestimate the bullet drop, I aimed 18" over his head, and hit him in the lower back. Best shot ever, and nobody around to confirm, so it didn't happen... 
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 8:11pm |
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When all I had was a 06 I had a couple boxes loaded up with 110 grain hollow points to shoot varmints and sittin crows with at 200 yds. Pretty tricky with a 2 1/2 power Lyman Alaskan All Weather Scope. 110 grain HPs shot real good thru a Mashburn Arms 30 cal barrel on a Springfield Action
Edited by Ken in Texas - 28 Feb 2019 at 10:21pm
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Les Royer
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 8:42pm |
I hit a bird with a sling shot once.
Think I used a chunk of limestone rock from the driveway.
Edited by Les Royer - 28 Feb 2019 at 8:46pm
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I still gots my A/C but it's clear out in the barn now.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 9:00pm |
 Les Royer wrote:
I hit a bird with a sling shot once.
Think I used a chunk of limestone rock from the driveway.
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That rock musta been a SPBT with a ballistic co-oefficient of 1.332,,,Great find,,Les,,,,, 
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Ken in Texas
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Posted: 28 Feb 2019 at 10:38pm |
I still have my .O6. And a few of the 110 Grain Hollow Points. Hadn't shot it years. Next time the boys gather at our place to do a little target practice I may have to break out my old O6 and see if I can still hit a little tomato paste can at 100 yards. Right between the Tomato and the Paste was the joke around here for years.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 9:38am |
I guess my first question should have been; Do you reload? If yes, that opens up lots of possibilities. The newest reloading manual I have shows 125 grain bullets up to 3400 FPS. That is going to shoot well flat enough to do what you want, and would really do a number on the old coyote.
When I was young I did a lot of shooting, was kind of obsessed with flat trajectory, (at practical hunting range). Wound up with a .243 with a 1 in 12" twist barrel about the time Nosler came out with the 55 Gr Ballistic Tip bullet. That thing would go over 4200 FPS, down side is that is very hard on barrels. It didn't last long but was fun to shoot! It got replaced by a 1 in 14" twist barrel that is even faster with the same loads. I try not to shoot it a lot, don't want to have to re-barrel again.
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Dave H
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 10:11am |
 Rance, i think what you need to do is set up a target out there where the coyotes roam. Do some three round groups letting the barrel cool to ambient temp between launches. Go from there.
After you establish which round groups best zero that puppy for the distance you want and let her rip. Maybe even put out a little bait? 
I got an old Model 70 Winchester 06 with sport barrel and i doubt i could consistently hit a bull in the butt at that range, as my daddy always said lol.
Edited by Dave H - 01 Mar 2019 at 10:12am
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Ray54
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 4:51pm |
See Rance you don't need no other place, experts on everything right here.
Now for my wisdom, perfect excuse to go buy another gun. I don't understand why everybody has not told you that.
But since this is the home frugal people,and you don't want to spring for a gun. At least a excuse to do a bunch of target practice. 
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Ranse
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 9:13pm |
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Dave H,
I been planning to do just as you suggested. I going to set a half sheet of plywood (4x4) at the edge of the woods. If I can hit it, I'll start putting paper targets on it.
Ray54,
I agree, there's a lot of good knowledgeable people on this forum.
IBWD MIke.
No, I don't reload. I thought about getting into it a few times for shotgun shells back when I quail hunted and shoot skeet a lot. I figure I don't shoot enough now to pay me to get started. I do plan to experiment some. That's why I was wanting to know about the lighter bullets. I may try some of the 125gr, I may try some of that match grade ammo too. But I'm not going to burn my barrel up. I plan for this Remington 700 to last the rest of my life-hopefully longer. I've been reading about the barrel life expectancy of certain calibers. Pretty surprising, only 1500 rds for some. That don't sound like much when I think about the thousands of rds I put thru a 22. At any rate, if I can't do what I want to do with factory ammo, then I guess it won't get done. Thanks Mike.
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Ted J
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 10:46pm |
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First off Ranse, most of us 'old farts' is dying off and there is a LOT of reloading stuff showing up on Craigs List, FaceBook MarketPlace, auctions and pawn shops. I suppose all my stuff will go there after I,,,,,,,,,,er,,,,,um ,,,,,expire... I have THOUSANDS of $$$$ worth in and on my benches. Yes, BENCHES...
Check around and see what you can find for a start in reloading. You won't believe the fun you'll have. You get to experiment!!
Now, the answers you got over there are the same I would give you over here. You've gotten some answers already. Here's some more.....
The twist in the barrel is meant to do it's job for what it is built for. The .223 is a pretty flat shooting round out to 350 yards, but no punch behind it. Because it is a LIGHT bullet, it has to have a fairly fast barrel twist, most in 1-14 or 12. Most bullets in this caliber are in the 35 to 85 grain weight. You can shoot a .223 in a 1-7 or 1-8 inch twist, but a LONGER bullet is a must or it won't stabalize.
The twist of an 06 is usually 8 or 9 to at most a 12 per-inch. The 10 or 12 twist in a barrel of a .30-06 will stabilize all these (light) 308 caliber bullets, which run from 100- to 165-grains, but a 220-grain one would probably require an 8-inch twist barrel to stabilize.
Notice the LIGHT in a .223 is around 50 grains, The LIGHT in a .308 (30-06) caliber bullet is 90 grains. It's just the nature of the beast. More weight, less twist. Less weight, more twist, to get the projectile (bullet) to stabalize. Stabalization is what it's all about, distance, trajectory, knockdown etc.
I shoot a .280 Rem Express for just about EVERYTHING, and do well at it. You need to PRACTICE and more practice. To do this, you need to reload. My favorite for varmints is a 140 grain Nosler Ballistic tip. I sight in at 200 and can hit anything out to 350 in less than a pie plate. At 400 I am 10 inches low. I can't even see that far anymore, so I don't get that chance very often. But if a yote catches my eye, I'll put the cross hairs on his back and gently pulllllll.........
I loaded some 120 grain ones this past summer, but haven't gotten to the range to try them out as yet....
There have been numerous articles on here about loads, loading, shooting, the right rifle, ammo, you name it. There are good answers too, but sometimes it gets heated. I'm NOT one of those guys that like to 'experiment' with loads. I like my fingers where they are...
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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klinemar
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Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 6:36am |
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Ranse there are some very wise Gun Nuts on this Forum. One thing I have found in life someone will try and help you just beware of the chickensh*ts ,jerks and assh*les ! Now for a story about guns! One of the writers in a outdoor magazine my dad and I used to read told of marrying a gal from Maine and her family always wanting him to come hunt deer season. So one year he took the time and went. Before opening day the hunters all gathered at the deer camp and introduced themselves and he could not help but notice Uncle Joe who carried and old Winchester Model 1873 in 44/40. All of his relatives laughed at Uncle Joe and his antique rifle as they all carried modern bolt ,pump or semi auto rifles. Finally after all of the joshing had died down the decisions were made who was going where opening morning. It was decided the writer would go with Uncle Joe. Opening morning found them on a ridge overlooking a small stream just as daylight was breaking. The writer had been questioning all night why he was put with this old man and his antique rifle when suddenly up jumped a nice 8 point buck that had been bedded just 75 yds. away! Before the writer could even shoulder his rifle Uncle Joe had his 44/40 on the deer and before the buck took 2 jumps he had a bullet placed right behind the bucks front shoulder! The buck rolled down next to the stream dead. After seeing this demonstration of Uncle Joe and his antique rifle the writer never questioned again going out with Uncle Joe . Obviously Uncle Joe had shot deer before with that rifle!
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Dave H
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Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 8:13am |
Well Rance, looking forward to feed back in the future. Hopefully you will be able to do some damage to that half sheet of plywood.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 9:42am |
Ranse, I doubt if you could shoot the barrel out of a 30-06 in a normal lifetime. My experience is that at about 3800 FPS and up barrel wear starts to get bad. There are tons of variables in this equation but a good rule of thumb.
If we lived a little closer I'd be glad to help with the loading of some custom stuff.
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Ranse
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Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 10:21pm |
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Ted,
A lot of good information there, I learned a little. I don't know what the twist is in my rifle. I assume like most ought sixes as you said. How do you determine it?
I used to think people reloaded only to save money. I reckon most people do it because they believe their is better than factory. I had a shotgun shell loader once. My problem was getting all the components to make the shells. I had plenty of empty shells but that was it. This was before internet days. Unless things change, I won't be getting into it anytime soon.
IBWD MIke,
Yeah that's a little far to go for ammo, but I appreciate the offer. I have a friend that reloads a lot but not 30-06. He also told me a barrel that a competition shooter would consider "shot out" would be plenty good enough to hunt with. I would guess there's some truth to that, would you agree?
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 8:51am |
I would agree 100% with your friend about the shot out barrel thing. The 30-06 is not very hard on barrels at all, especially in a bolt gun.
I've reloaded piles of ammo in my lifetime, never looked at it from a money saving aspect with the exception of trap loads. As to rifle shells, reloading just gave me the ability to tailor the shells to the individual rifle.
If you want to check the twist in the barrel, take a cleaning rod, put some masking tape on it so it sticks out perpendicular, then push a patch through while holding a tape measure and see how far to make 360 degrees. Internet search says 1 in 10" is standard, couldn't remember off the top of my head. I'll bet that's what yours is. I had a .308 that was 1 in 11" and that was nonstandard. That was a target gun, was built to shoot metallic silhouettes, (I just shot paper with it).
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fixer1958
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 9:43am |
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Best shot I ever made was a squirrel right behind the eye at 75 yds with a 22 I got when I was 12 years old.
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klinemar
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 6:18pm |
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Known barrel burner calibers are 264 Winchester magnum ,22/250 reloaded above factory specs. 7mm Remington magnum was a barrel burner until bullet design and right twist of barrel. An old reloader told me that keeping the barrel clean means a lot for barrel life. Also he said most higher velocity loads should not burn a barrel out for at least 1,000 rds. My own experience using both factory and reloads is to find the best combination for what you are shooting. My Savage 243 loved 85 gr Sierra game king with 40 grains IMR 4350 powder,winchester primer. Velocity was 3200 ! You did not have to hold over much out to 400 yds! A deer sized animal out to 250 aim right where you wanted the bullet to hit ! Why I sold that rifle I will never know!
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Ted J
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Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 10:47pm |
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What Mike said is the easiest way to determine barrel twist. To find out for sure, any gun smith can tell you exactly.
ALL guns DO NOT shoot any given ammo the same. I have 3 rifles (all of the same caliber) and no 2 shoots the same. There are a lot of things that make them shoot different, probably the biggest is barrel resonance.
I reload to save money (did I mention that I've spent THOUSANDS on equipment?) to tune a load to the gun, rifle or pistol and the enjoyment of shooting. The enjoyment part is #1 on my list anymore. I'm teaching my grandkids to do both, shoot and reload. To see the face they make when they hit that target........PRICELESS
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 6:59am |
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Hi Rance, I have been a rifle fanatic for most of my life and built high end target and sporting rifles for many years in my 'smithing business. Does that make me an expert? Nope, but it does mean I am not easily BSed. Shooting forums are heavily populated with BS artists, plain and simple. Your best sources of information are the component manufacturers and a good quality reloading manual. Jack O'Conner wrote many good articles if you are into it as did Elmer Keith. The bullet people are the very good about providing quality information. People tend to worry way to much about mussle velocity and drop which are both predictable and not so much about accuracy, consistency and bullet performance at given speeds. My eldest son just began shooting the 1000 yard target game and is getting some hard lessons in the field after becoming an "expert" by reading forums, LOL I will state as fact that anyone who claims that 400 yard shots on that size target IN FIELD CONDITIONS are easy is a BS artist. Wind, hold on the rifle, trigger control and range estimate errors will cause far more misses than any other factors. Hunting is a far different deal than clanging a metal disk or punching holes in paper at a known distance while hunkered down with a sand bag bedded rifle, or bragging on an internet forum,,,,
Edited by Butch(OH) - 05 Mar 2019 at 7:30am
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klinemar
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 11:25am |
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I have had Hunters tell me they unloaded their shotgun or rifle at a deer and never hit the deer. When I asked them did you sight in before season they respond no it was the gun's fault! So they trade for some other rifle or shotgun and miss with that one! Shooting is like everything else in life you have to shoot and be comfortable with your rifle or shotgun and know where it shoots ! And don't take for granted you have the rifle or shotgun sighted in for say 200 yds. when you have been shooting 100yds. ! Shoot 200yds. and then you know where the rifle or shotgun hits! Shooting is not cheap but what else can a man do that brings some sense of accomplishment,enjoyment and not too much trouble !
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ocharry
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 11:59am |
Hi Ranse,,,what Butch just said is a mouth full,,,BUT oh so true,,,i have played the thousand game for a long time,,,,lots of factors go into making a good hit at that range,,,
some of the stuff on here is good advice ,,,dont want to step on toes but ,,,,
if you and your friend can get together and work up a load for your remington that would be good,,,,you would be getting some trigger time and some practice,,,,but if you pickup some bad habits along the way,,,that could be bad too
might i suggest that you maybe video yourself while shooting or practicing and that will help you to watch what you are doing and maybe fix some potential problems,,,,,i had a guy at my range a few years back,,,i would make suggestions about what he was doing,,,he wouldnt listen,,,he would say ,,," i didnt do that " so i started videoing him,,,make a copy and send it home with him so he could watch,,,,one day he came here and said ,,,,"wow i didnt know i was doing that",,,,well duuuhhh,,,not like somebody didnt mention it 2 weeks ago,,,lol
might i also suggest that your remington more than likely has a 1-10 twist,,,you can check it or have your friend help you do it,,,its pretty easy to check,,,i usually push a cleaning rod with a jag and patch about 2/3 into the barrel put tape flag (like said above) and pull the rod out until the flag make 1 full turn,,,,put a magic marker line on the rod and pull it out and measure between the flag and line,,,,1-10 will be 10" between the flag and mark
might i also suggest that if it is a 1-10 twist barrel that you maybe up the bullet weight to a 165-168gr bullet,,,,,,,,or maybe a 175gr ,,,,i know that seems odd going up in weight ,,,,BUT if the heavier bullet stabilizes better it could be more accurate than your 150r bullets,,,,i would bet that will be the case,,,,and you can make the sight adjustment for the 300yrds or what ever you need,,,strike zone wouldt change that much from 275-325,,,,but a yote is a small target out there at that range,,,so while you are practicing you could learn some hold over and under lessons...if he is 325 or so top of back,,,if he is 250-260 maybe hold at his feet,,,after you do it some it will come pretty easy,,,,you also need to know how far ,,,get or borrow a range finder and put some marker out in the field so you know where they are,,,,,this cold be fun
put your targets out there find the best load you can,,,,maybe get 2-3 different boxes of ammo to test with,,,,your rifle will like one better than the other,,,,thats why we reload
just some thoughts to help you get them yotes,,,,also they are quick learners,,,,if you miss them they will change up the game PDQ
see you didnt need another forum,,,lol
my .02
ocharry
Edited by ocharry - 05 Mar 2019 at 12:00pm
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klinemar
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 12:43pm |
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Some very good advice from some very good shooters. I put a road kill deer out in the hay field and drove a red stake in the ground for a marker . Ranged it at 175 yds. Coyotes came and started eating after 2 weeks. I was gone from home for a week and neighbor who hunts with dogs called and said coyote was on the deer carcass. I said go ahead and put your dogs on him because where I am right now i would have to have a long barrel to shoot the yote ! Neighbor put his dogs on the track but never got the coyote! And I have to look up another road kill! Most coyote hunters here say you don't get many chances at a yote. They become wiley real quick!
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