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Need help/advice with an Allis B plow setup |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Posted: 03 Jul 2020 at 1:53am |
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The diagram and my tractor do not match, so I am assuming there is a kit that can be added to match my tractor to the configuration from the manual. I have not found much in my search results to this point. Any tips on what to search for? Also drained the transmission "oil" today. It looked like coffee with way to much creamer. Replaced with SAE 30. The diagram: My ride I don't know much about equipment, it would be nice if I
could take a look at another B that is outfitted for plows, using
hydraulics or not, it would be clear. Edited by jlbintn - 03 Jul 2020 at 1:56am |
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22823 |
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All you 'farmerized' drawbar stuff needs to come off. Then you need the lift cyliders and proper plow drawbar, and linkage to the rock shaft.
Here is a picture of a pick up plow, drawbar and other parts needed to mount ona B If you do a google search for B Allis mounted plow, you will find all kinds of images to study. Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 04 Jul 2020 at 6:29am |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Dakota Dave
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3959 |
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It would help to know what plow you have but none of your adapted stuff can stay on the tractor. The rock shaft and drop plow drop brackets can stay on for normal tractor usage. A single 16 actually works better than the left right plows.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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No plows as of yet Dave. I am getting recommendations for chisel plows and harrow plows, but so far that's it. Right now I'm at the point of trying to figure out what I need to get the tractor ready to hook up a plow. Thanks for the recommendation on the single 16. edit to add: I know absolutely nothing about plows, so right now this is a bit overwhelming. I am not even up to speed on some of the terminology. The learning curve is steep at the moment.
Edited by jlbintn - 04 Jul 2020 at 12:43am |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 52028 |
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What you need to do is to familiarize yourself with the tractor you have. Search youtube for allis b plows and plowing videos. Also going to steam and gas shows (if there are any, right now, in your area, with this covid sh!t...) also, if you see any used equipment dealer lots, in your area, stop and look at what they have. also, talking to older farmers can get you on the learning curve...
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22823 |
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The easiest way to get to plowing, IMO, would be to find a proper drawbar set up and a 1 bottom rope trip plow. Any make plow will work for this with no change to your tractor except the proper drawbar. It's also easier to use the tractor for something else this way.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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I'm learning and in a few months this will all be second-hand I figure. Once the dialect comes naturally, everything else falls into place, at least that has been my experience. There are a lot of farmers in this area, haven't seen many Allis-Chalmers tractors, though. I'll have to get out and about, but this damn virus crap, even out here, is having some impact. Would the three point conversions I have seen for the B, possibly be a good practical solution? If I understand your comments correctly, and within the limitations of the tractor itself, any hitch will work once I get the hardware on the tractor itself correct. Another possible toy to get: some type of bush hog, for the heavier foliage I have, that tends to want to tear my mower all to hell (a couple of pulleys and some other assorted issues over the last three years.) I had planned on getting to this several months ago, in fact not long after I started posting, but this damn virus has been one big huge pain in the ass. My wife is on the front lines, our DIL got our grandkids out of Seattle in March, they're here til next month, I had to improvise my talents to being a school teacher until just a few weeks ago. I've got the boy starting and driving the tractor, though. Parking it is off limits til next summer I had hoped to have a plow setup at least well on it's way to a reality. Ahh well edit to add: Thanks for the replies everyone. It's much appreciated. I have not been idle on the old girl, these past months. I got the carb completely rebuilt and the tank treated and cleaned. Chatt-town Radiator did a bang-up job and quickly, too. Gas is coming out of that tank as clean as the day the tractor came off the assembly line.
Edited by jlbintn - 04 Jul 2020 at 10:26am |
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4817 |
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REALLY??? I've always thought that a B and a set of 2 way plows was one of the best well balance tractor plow combinations ever built. It's a great setup for doing gardens and small fields or hillsides. I'm sure Bill Long would agree Stay away from those aftermarket 3pt combulations. Apart from the plow being mounted so far back from the tractor that you'll need a 400 pound wife/girlfriend to ride on the front to hold it down, you'll never get a 3pt plow to plow like the factory setup.
Edited by PaulB - 04 Jul 2020 at 11:09am |
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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My neighbor came over yesterday and got into the tractor roundtable we conducted around the brake project. He told me that Charleston has a tractor show, but most of what he has seen there the few times he attended were John Deere's. Said he has never seen another Allis-Chalmers tractor in this area.
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Bill Long
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bel Air, MD Points: 4556 |
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Looking at the pictures of the hydraulic pump it seems that the line for the oil flow to the hydraulic rams has been plugged. It seems that unless you have an after market hydraulic pump attached - that I cannot see - you have no working hydraulics.
The first picture shows the proper hydraulic connection for a two way plow operation. As stated above the hook up you presently have is an after market hitch. The plows made for the B are very good. I sure assembled, mounted, and adjusted enough of them. You may check on e-bay. They sometimes have hydraulic rams or even attachments there. If you want a B plow you may check here. We have a classified section and you could put a request here You have a lot of items you need to get a mounted plow. The plow, the lift arrangement behind the seat, and the hydraulic ram or rams for a two way plow. Hard since they don't make them any more. It may be best to consider - as stated above - using a one bottom pull type plow. May be easier to find. In any event let me congratulate you for obtaining my favorite Allis Chalmers Tractor, the B. You will find it to be very dependable, very basic, and for it size powerful. Let me along with the others wish you the very best on your search. Do not hesitate to ask here. We will be delighted to be of whatever assistance we can. Sorry I got so Windy but it is my favorite subject - The B Good Luck! Bill Long
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Am I correct in my assumption that the two oval shaped openings in the back, under the ram mounts are where hoses are connected for oil flow to operate the hydraulic system on this tractor?
Based on the diagram picture I posted, that looks to be where hose connections belong. edit to add: Thanks for the info and nice words, Mr. Long. Edited by jlbintn - 06 Jul 2020 at 12:04am |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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I see what you mean by plugged. That looks easy enough to remedy. If I can find the parts. I'm wondering if I could manufacture something that might work, if I am unable to find the parts. I really need to be able to eyeball a B with the factory described setup. That's a tall order I think
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 52028 |
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Edited by DiyDave - 06 Jul 2020 at 4:39am |
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chaskaduo
Orange Level Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5200 |
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Be sure and get proper hydraulic fittings and lines. The pressures on these pumps is 3,000psi plus. Plumbing pipe & brass fittings are not rated for these pressures. A pressure cooker would probably explode at a 10th to 20th of 3,000psi. It's your life and your choice.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Roger that
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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I dug quite a bit more into the topic, and found some information about pump specs, which your post confirms. It's a high pressure low flow pump. The number I saw was 3200 psi. I also took a good hard look at the manual diagram again and some of it just clicked. I was staring right at it, and just missed it, i.e., the plugging terminology used by Bill, and then the hard line plumbed out of the pump. That diagram is misleading (if one doesn't know what they're looking at), because it sure does look like those lines feed into the back part of that housing. But it makes sense now. Thanks all for "suffering" my ignorance. It is much appreciated.
Edited by jlbintn - 06 Jul 2020 at 11:23am |
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BrianC
Orange Level Joined: 16 Jun 2011 Location: New York Points: 1619 |
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That ram selector lever, does it have a position where both rams are active?
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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The wanted ad is up, and the search begins |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 82070 |
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john, i saw your post in the WANT ADDS... Im not sure what you are trying to do. You might need to explain it to us, or do a little more thinking on what you want in the long term.. "MOST" of the B tractors have ONE cylinder and ONE hose that runs from the pump/ valve to the cylinder. They don not use the splitter valve mounted under the seat.
Here is a picture of a "standard" B setup with one cylinder and one hose from the pump. Then you have a LEVER under the seat to control the valve mounted on the pump.. This photo also has a ROCK SHAFT, which is the cross bar behind the seat that LIFTS you equipment when the cylinder pushes on the attached arm.. You might need that, depending on WHAT TYPE plow you plan to use..... you need to determine if you are going with a 3 point setup, a " beam under the tractor" type setup, or what ?? Your BLADE and DISC should use the same setup as you get for the PLOW, so plan ahead. Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Jul 2020 at 4:20pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 82070 |
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here is a picture of a 3 point setup added to a B... about 1:30 point in the movie..
This can use the original B pump and valve and maybe the cylinder. The "new parts" are mounted to the old draw bar loop... This does allow you to use newer attachments like a blade / scoop/ etc.......... again, it all depends on what ATTACHMENTS you have and WHAT YOUR TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH ??? |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 82070 |
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here is a photo of a B that i have that has a plow BEAM as shown in Chariles photo above, with the PLOW removed and a BLADE section bolted to it..... just showing another OPTION of what can be done.... one pump / one cylinder / one hose / factory BEAM / factory rockshaft and lift..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 52028 |
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If yours has the selector valve, and second cyl pin, on the left, as is shown in your pictures, what you need is the double plow set up, shown in CTucker's picture.
Edited by DiyDave - 06 Jul 2020 at 5:40pm |
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Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2242 |
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The 2-way 16" 2-way plow setup is ideal.....when the unused plow is up it adds weight to the wheel on the sod.....right where it's needed. And, there is never a "dead" furrow. My Dad bought a brand new "B' with the two-way plows in 1941, the year I was born. As I recall, he told me the package cost just over $800. The price went up substantially after the war. Getting a complete 2-way set of plows with all the associated pieces is going to be difficult......and expensive!
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rhaley
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Jul 2019 Location: Minnesota Points: 21 |
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Here is what the plow looks like on my B. This works well even in the heavy soil we have here.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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Thanks for all of the replies and the pictures, very helpful. I do not need a double setup, if I can get it that would be icing on the cake, but not a show stopper if not. Single will be fine for what I want to do, garden plowing on a four acre setup, maybe digging out a water line run from the house to the garden, it's about 350 feet from the source to destination. Possibly, down the road, maybe a bush hog. For now that would be the ideal setup.
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Lars(wi)
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 7362 |
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As for the transmission ‘oil’, if I’m not mistaken the correct oil should be non-detergent 20 weight.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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It is SAE 20, didn't know about the non-detergent spec. I have yet to find any SAE 20 oil. For now, I just put straight 30w in it. I plan on running it a bit, then draining it again, and may fill it up with farm Diesel and run it a bit, then drain and refill. Whatever was in there prior to the first drain, had been in there a long damn time. Edited by jlbintn - 08 Jul 2020 at 10:05am |
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4817 |
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Generic Hy-Tran fluid is what most everyone uses. It is a NON foaming hydraulic & transmission oil.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22823 |
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The manual calls for 20w non detergent oil. That's the best they had back then for that system. Any Universal HyTran fluid is better than the old 20W as far as I'm concerned. Been using it for near 40 years in my tractors, and it's available just about anywhere. Walmart, Farm stores, auto parts stores and the like. |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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jlbintn
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Location: Charleston, TN Points: 138 |
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The radiator is still in the shop, so I decided to go ahead and pull the shifter plate and drain the transmission. Next up, the hose. I think I'm going to go with the right side one plow setup for the time being. Does the orientation of the ram matter? The manual looks like it feeds underneath, some of the pictures show it to the top.
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