Need a shifter fork rod for 7000 Black belly

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My Dad got the shifter off the transmission (gotta give credit to the old man for tackling the job considering his experience with repairs goes to about oil changes in his truck), and the 3rd/4th shifter fork rod was broken.  It is part number 70260638 out of the current AGCO part book (it's mislabeled as 2nd/4th Rod).  Is this something that is still available?  Also will need a gasket 70260654 and possibly a fork (PN 70261262), as it has some wear (I'll post pictures later, but basically the way he described it was the shaft broke and the fork was cocked sideways a little holding the gear in).

Also, need some help on disassembly. We're worried about the detent balls and springs. He was thinking about waiting until he gets the new rod, then taking the fork off the old rod and knocking the new one through the shifter plate bore so the detent balls and springs never come out of place.   Is this a possibility?  Or is there a better way to replace this shifter fork rod? 

Any idea what causes these rods to break?  Is this a "common" problem?  Anything I should have him look for inside the shifter/transmission.

Edit: Also does anyone have the spec for the thickness of the shifter fork surfaces?  My Dad didn't see anything in the service manual about this spec.  I'm just trying to figure out if the shifter fork is worn out.

-Hurst

Edited by Hurst - 16 Feb 2011 at 10:09am

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Hurst Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1213	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hurst Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Need a shifter fork rod for 7000 Black belly Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 10:04am
	My Dad got the shifter off the transmission (gotta give credit to the old man for tackling the job considering his experience with repairs goes to about oil changes in his truck), and the 3rd/4th shifter fork rod was broken. It is part number 70260638 out of the current AGCO part book (it's mislabeled as 2nd/4th Rod). Is this something that is still available? Also will need a gasket 70260654 and possibly a fork (PN 70261262), as it has some wear (I'll post pictures later, but basically the way he described it was the shaft broke and the fork was cocked sideways a little holding the gear in). Also, need some help on disassembly. We're worried about the detent balls and springs. He was thinking about waiting until he gets the new rod, then taking the fork off the old rod and knocking the new one through the shifter plate bore so the detent balls and springs never come out of place. Is this a possibility? Or is there a better way to replace this shifter fork rod? Any idea what causes these rods to break? Is this a "common" problem? Anything I should have him look for inside the shifter/transmission. Edit: Also does anyone have the spec for the thickness of the shifter fork surfaces? My Dad didn't see anything in the service manual about this spec. I'm just trying to figure out if the shifter fork is worn out. -Hurst Edited by Hurst - 16 Feb 2011 at 10:09am
	1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours

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Hurst Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1213	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hurst Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 10:25am
	Here are pictures of the shifter/forks/problem (You can also see the wear on the forks, so please feel free express your opinions on how worn you think the forks are and any other ideas) Hurst
	1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours

niel ev Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 04 Feb 2010 Points: 189	Post Options Post Reply Quote niel ev Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 11:11am
	Hurst I took a 3/8 bolt and ground about half the bolt donw for about a inch and a half so that when I slid the shaft back in I could push the ball down and still have room for the shaft to slide in also we might have a good used shifter let me know if I can help Niel

sandylakeimplement Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Sandy Lake, PA Points: 399	Post Options Post Reply Quote sandylakeimplement Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 11:55am
	The pads look quite worn on the fork. Would indicate that the fork was having to hold the slider engaged instead of the shifting teeth of the gear & slider holding themselves engaged. While it's out make sure the interlocks are working properly & not binding. Bill
	Sandy Lake Implement Sandy Lake, PA 724-376-2489 www.sandylakeimp.com FIND US ON FACEBOOK

Hurst Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1213	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hurst Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 12:05pm
	I'll have to have him take a picture of the slider and gears to see how the teeth look. It's never had a problem with trying to jump out of gear, but maybe the forks were not adjusted properly where it was holding the gear in all the way? Hurst
	1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours

sandylakeimplement Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Sandy Lake, PA Points: 399	Post Options Post Reply Quote sandylakeimplement Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 12:19pm
	The slider teeth or splines will be impossible to see but one can assume that they are worn the same as the shifting teeth around the gear hub. The driving teeth around the O.D. of the gear are not a concern in this respect. The detent will hold the slider in place as initial wear occurs but the result is worn fork pads as you picture. Bill
	Sandy Lake Implement Sandy Lake, PA 724-376-2489 www.sandylakeimp.com FIND US ON FACEBOOK

Hurst Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1213	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hurst Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 2:11pm
	Bill, thanks for the help. Niel, I may be in contact with you about some used parts. Can the forks be built back up by a machine shop or are they available new for a reasonable price? I should have some pictures of the gears tonight from my Dad. He said the engagement teeth didn't seem to have any wear, but the reverse idler gear was pretty chewed up. Is this something that can be replaced from the top?
	1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours

Hurst Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1213	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hurst Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 5:35pm
	Well, some of these made me a little sick to look at them, looks like reverse might be about gone on this thing too... Is that idler able to be replaced through the top? I also should have some measurements of just how much is worn off the fork on the 3rd/4th fork tonight or tomorrow. Hurst
	1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours

Orange Blood Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053	Post Options Post Reply Quote Orange Blood Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 8:41pm
	Never had a power dirrector open, but I can look at the manual, but I am sure this is a split and tear down job.
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MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 9:06pm
	When you get the new rail, make sure all the rails are in nutural and with cover fasened solid in a vice push the new shaft through pushing the old shaft out. After you price the new fork you can bronz the old fork and file it back flat. MACK

Andrew(southernIL) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Metropolis, IL Points: 1086	Post Options Post Reply Quote Andrew(southernIL) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 9:53pm
	I'm not a professional mechanic and the only transmission and rear end Ive been in is a 3020 and a 4020 but with the problem you have and the looks of that gear I think its time to bite the bullet and tear it down and put all new bearings and detents. And replace any wore looking gears and shifting cages. Also make sure all the shims are on the shafts, the 3020 I did we got it all together and it still had a problem so we had to tear it down again and while putting one of the shafts back in noticed that a shim had wore down to nothing and was gone. Could save a lot of future headache an since its already broke down now's a good time to do. Edited by Andrew(southernIL) - 16 Feb 2011 at 9:56pm
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Hurst Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1213	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hurst Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 9:58pm
	Andrew, that's definitely something I have thought about, but the problem right now is I'm in Philadelphia for college (until June at the earliest...) and the tractor's at home in Midway, Ky (10 hours away), so I've been calling/skyping my Dad to talk him through the tear down this far. Unfortunately, a full rear end tear down is going to be way past his comfort level, but I may consider replacing the reverse idler if that is a simple repair that doesn't require a split. If I get a chance to work on it this summer, it will be something I will consider, as all I have left to mechanically rebuild on this tractor is the powershift and transmission. I've been through the rear end, bull gears, and engine, but haven't done much with the middle of the tractor other than disassemble, clean, and reassemble the powershift valve body. Hurst
	1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours

Steve M C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Location: shelbyville IL Points: 691	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve M C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 10:14pm
	Hurst,that gear is pretty chewed on but I bet there is still quite a bit of tooth contact lenght wise.Previous owner must have ground that a lot.Reverse don't usually have much of a load to move so it'll probably go a long time without causing trouble.What I'm saying is,probably no need to get excited about replacing it.

bena18 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Location: sw mo Points: 49	Post Options Post Reply Quote bena18 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 9:29am
	Reverse idler can be changed by taking top cover of rearend,removing keeper on on idler shaft then using a small portapower in the trans and shove the shaft rearward. hang on to the gear with a welding rod wraped around the shifter fork grove. The trick is getting the right push cylinder to fit in trans.

Lynn Marshall Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Dana, Iowa Points: 2318	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lynn Marshall Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 9:54am
	I have changed out several of those gears over the years.I made a bar with a hook to use as leverage to push the shaft back.Sometimes they push out fairly easily,next one can be a brute.A&I products has an aftermarket gear available,decent price too.Look down inside the tranny case to see the gear in mates to on the countershaft.Unfortunately the gear is part of the countershaft ,so complete tear down is required to fix.I think $1500 or $1600 for that countershaft and a lot of labor.OUCH!

skipwelte Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: Anthon, Iowa Points: 723	Post Options Post Reply Quote skipwelte Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 11:40am
	Im with SteveM, that gear could easily be the victim of a previous owner, you know if youve ground reverse or not. When it gets worn enough it will jump out of reverse, might be a long time if you shift it right. You can change it without a teardown, but Id be real leary of off shore gears, they might be real soft. good luck

sandylakeimplement Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Sandy Lake, PA Points: 399	Post Options Post Reply Quote sandylakeimplement Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 11:47am
	From what I see in your pictures the shifting teeth don't look too bad. The reverse idler looks bad but I wouldn't put myself out to fix it right now if it is not convenient. Replace or rebuild the fork & check the interlocks would be my advice. Bill
	Sandy Lake Implement Sandy Lake, PA 724-376-2489 www.sandylakeimp.com FIND US ON FACEBOOK