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More Missing Oil

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Leop View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Oct 2019 at 11:06pm
Just today I made a post about not seeing oil in my wet clutch housing. While I was working on that issue I noticed a small dipstick on the right hand side of the transmission.

That dipstick would normaly be hidden under the floor boards so this is the first time I have seen it. Of course I checked it, and its also bone dry.

I don't see that dipstick in the parts catalog. Is it an add-on or a legitimate AC dip stick?

I assume that its for the transmission and that it should have nice clean 90W gear oil on it. Is that correct?

While I am asking, how many darn dipsticks are there on this tractor? And what is the point of hiding an important one under the floor boards!!! ?

Edited by Leop - 23 Oct 2019 at 11:08pm
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gemdozer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 4:50am
The transmission use 90 gear oil and wet cluch use ATF OIL
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 2:22pm
WinkDang you are putting the brain power here to the test. Don't think I have ever been on a HD 6, but the early ones where a HD 5 with the Buda engine. So the HD 5 transmission had a plug you opened for level of oil. It is down under the seat,were the HD 9 already had a dipstick under the seat if I am remembering right.



For your question if your machine has hydraulic boosters on the steering that would have a sump to be checked. But for sure you have final drives that need oil. There should be a plug on each side about level with the drawbar. They are made to be filled up to the opening. I run 85-140 in my stuff,drips a little slower that way.
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Leop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 5:55pm
Ray,

Do you know if the final drive shares oil from right side to left side?  Do the transmission and final drives share Oil.

The machine is sitting with the front at a slight up angle and leaning to the right. The right cup in the back showed thick green oil on the right side. A couple of drops of red atf looking oil on the left side, but none dripping out or even pooled up in the cup, and finally no oil in the transmission.

Suggestions?
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 5:51pm
Final drives are NOT connected. Each side has a plug on the back of the case about the same height as the draw bar. Fill until it is about to run over. Heavy oil takes time to flow in and burp the air out. Probably need to fill it a few times before it is full. The plug has a square hole to put a 1/2 inch breaker bar in to loosen. Don't lose the copper washer under the plug.


The transmission filler is under the seat on a HD5 but the newer HD 6 may have the seat further back so plug maybe under the floor plates. The 5 has small pipe plug in the side. Fill until oil runs out. The 6 may have a dip stick.Standing on the track looking at the fuel tank the level plug on a 5 is on your left, or the right side of tractor if you are behind it.

I always do my best to park tractors level just so I can check things every time before I start them.But sometimes you just cannot. But the more you check you get so you can guess and keep it in the ballpark.

Wink Things like finals generally leak very slowly,so fresh oil leaking means it still has some.LOL


Edited by Ray54 - 03 Nov 2019 at 5:55pm
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Leop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 10:42pm
Thanks Ray,

I also understand that the plugs on the bottom of the final drive (where the casting has the opening for the rear axle) are supposed to be out, not in. Is that true? If so then why are they even there?

The one on the drivers left also has some oil seepage. I assume that if the plugs are not supposed to be in that there should also not be oil pooled up in there?

Thanks for all your help Ray.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 9:19am
if your talking about the barrel plugs on the underneath your housing originally there was a plug that would let water/oil out but if you used it in water conditions it would not allow water to get in. if your not going to use it in water related use then I would leave them out or at least drill a small hole in them so they will drain in case you leak inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 12:22pm
Yes as pinball said. They are to let leaking oil get out of the steer clutch compartment. As brakes not made to run in oil will not work well if oiled. But this brings it back around to if your was to run in oil.



From your thinking the prevous owner knew what he was doing,if the plugs have been out I would think he used the parts made to run dry. But that is just a guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 4:00pm
So to clarify. If my crawler uses dry steering clutches:
  1. And I decide to take it into the water, then plugs in the bottom of the steering clutch compartment should be left in so as to keep the outside water out. Is This correct?

    I suppose that in this case I should also occasionally take those plugs out while on dry land in order to let leaking oil or water that somehow got in to drain out of the steering clutch compartment so that it stayes off the clutches. Then once all the oil and water that leaked in has drained out re-install the plugs before the next trip into the water. Is this also correct?

  2. And if I decide not to drive the machine into any water the plugs in the bottom of the steering clutch compartment should be left out so that any leaking oil or rain water that gets into the steering clutch compartments can get out. Is this correct?


And that in the case that my machine is designed to use wet style steering clutches that the plugs in the bottom of the steering clutch comparment are allways left in so as to contain all the oil that the clutches are designed to run in. Correct?

Is there an easy way to confirm whethere my crawler is designed to use wet or dry style steering clutches? Can I see enough from the access plates under the seat to asertain whether it is supposed to be a wet versus a dry steering clutch machine? If so, what do I look for?

Thanks for all your help guys.

Leo

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 1:16pm
You are correct on the reason for plugs.  The fact you have a oil tank and pump says it is a wet steering clutch machine from the factory.

How many hours have you put on it, with it probably being dry. Since you did not see any leaks,we will assume it has been dry as long as you have had it. Hopefully someone that has run a simalar machine will show up to get a idea of if yours could of survived this long being dry. Until it is confirmed I would guess dry parts could fit,but I cannot comfirm anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dnoym N. S. Can. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 8:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 3:44am
If you have a wet stering cluch you should have a booster and a double pump near the injection pump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 10:04am
Hi Ray,

At most I have put 3 hrs on the machine. However for the last hour of that three the clutch was slipping. After adjusting the clutch I was able to confirm with the machine in neutral that the clutch engaged, disengaged and that the clutch brake would bring the spining input shaft to the transmission to a complete stop.

I then washed out all the clutch dust using diesel and let it drain into the clutch oil reservoir. I then restarted the machine and with the diesel combined with the oil already in the sump I observed the pump throwing a spray of the mixture into the clutch housing.

At this point I was thinking to drain the diesel oil mixture, change the filter, and fill with whatever oil I can find around the house that will work for testing and leak hunting. Then put her under a load to see if the whole thing works. If it does, and the test oil I used was not what you specified then i would drain the test oil and fill her with ATF and a new filter as you specified.

I have some clean hydraulic fluid and muti-weight engine oil if the sump doesnt take a lot of oil. I have some peanut butter hydraulic oil (hydraulic oil that got some water in it) if that would work. Worst case I'll test and look for leaks using brand new ATF.

All I need in order to get it done today is to decide on the test oil to use, and find a way to get the steel plug unfrozen from the aluminium sump. Same thing happens to the Detroit's on my boat, so I have a few ideas about that. Worst case I'll go pick up one of those machines that can suck the oil out of the dipstick tube.

Thoughts?

Edited by Leop - 06 Nov 2019 at 10:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 10:13am
The pump under the fuel pump was a single stage pump and I only saw two lines enter and exit. A fat one from the sump, and a skinny one that terminates in a fitting just under the clutch housing oil filter.

So I thinknI have a dry clutch machine.

However, i have a gut feeling that I might have a wet clutch system. Cant tell you why, just a gut feeling. Hence my question about whether its possible to tell by looking into the drake lining inspection hole.

Leo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 10:16am
Thanks dnoym. I had these from past kindhearted souls that have showen them to me in the past.

But, it's always nice to know that there are other kind hearted souls that will help when needed.

:)
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gemdozer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 10:49am
With a single pump you should have the wet master cluch and dry stering cluch
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 12:26pm
WinkYour way past what I know. LOL Never so prosperous as to get anything that new.

But it would seem to me if you have a pump and lines going to master clutch it would want to run in oil.

Wink I guess I already miss spoke. Embarrassed My old D6's all the same model but some wet master clutch.Embarrassed Some dry but no mistaking which. But never made with wet steering.

The cheap way may be to hunt up experienced local, Wink no matter what they charge. If they is such to be found.
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Leop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 1:38pm
The last guy I knew of owned my machine but he passed away which is how I got it.

Well, if i don't know what Im doing now, then I'll know for sure if I break it and need to fix it. The good old school of hard knocks I guess.

Thanks for all your help Ray.

Leo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ages Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 6:39pm
The  wet clutch machines have a dipstick next to the engine oil dipstick on the left side. Tha pump is under the fuel injection pump. Power steering-power brake tractors have two additional pumps driven off the back of the oil clutch pump.

Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG, HD6B dozer, HD6E dozer I-400, 615, ACP25, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 wheel loader, #84 AC plow, Simplicity tractors.
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