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me and doc.... |
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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gonna have a long talk! couple months ago or so, I was about bed ridden, had that bout of pnumonia, and wasn't able to walk anymore, breathing was really hard, got so bad I was having to pee ina bottle cuz I couldn't get to the bathroom just about 12 ft away! I I was to have to go from the house to my burb, would have had to call a squad to take me to it just 50 ft away. all my muscle strength was gone, was losing weight tho! I ran out of a few meds and didn't refill them right away, I did notice I was feeling a bit better without them. since then I have quit almost all my meds (11) of them, I feel awesum! I still run outta poop soon while walking, but I can walk farther and farther every day. still taking pain meds for my back, but not as often. taking all them meds was poisoning me, I was down to buying a motorized wheel chair and changing the interior of our house for one. it's getting lots easier to do steps too. I was able to walk back to the east machine sheds yesterday, something I haven't been able to do for 2-3 years. i've been bombbarded by united Health Care about not re-newing my meds...I will discuss that with them too one of these days. watcha all think? oh...the first drug I dropped was Metformin, that took almost all my muscles away. I'm finally getting them back slowly.
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5086 |
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Well buddy, I'm no doctor but I'm sure exercise is everybody's best friend. Hard to say about not taking medicine because it could be preventing something that could be bad. Then again I figure most all medicine is a foreign substance to the body. I'll also say it's very possible that the doc wasn't paying attention and maybe one or more of your medications shouldn't be used together. Definitely a conversation worth having and maybe the more stern the better.
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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tadams(OH) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10872 |
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I have a brother-in-law that quit take his sugar meds, he is now riding a wheelchair around the house and has a electric cart for outside. He went through a lotts of therapy just to be able to stand up for a short time , like 3 or 4 years worth of therapy. So just be careful
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87640 |
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some meds are needed and useful .............. but if your up to 11 DIFFERENT kinds per day, there is probably something wrong.. I doubt many Drs would think 11 different kinds are acceptable.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8716 |
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My best friend/neighbor had an aunt that was dying of cancer, I suppose about 10 years ago or more. His dad and uncle drove out to see her, more or less to tell their sister a final good by. I never did hear it, but assumed that she had passed away shortly thereafter. Fast forward about 3 years from then, there was a wedding in their family, which I attended. Thought I seen a ghost, because I seen who I was 90 percent certain was my friend's aunt who I thought had passed away. I asked me friend about her. He said that yes, she was not expected to live, so they had taken her off ALL of her medications, and put on hospice. As soon as she was off all of her medications, she improved rapidly, and to my knowledge, she is still alive yet.
Darrel |
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Ray54 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4729 |
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How many different doctors did the meds come from? You need one good general practice guy in your corner to keep a eye on all the specialists. Also helps to get the meds from the same pharmacist. They are suppose to watch the chemistry so to speak so they all work together.
But I have heard any number of times off people getting better by not taking to many meds. But some things like blood sugar you need to have in the right range be it meds or diet. So be kind careful so you get lots of hours
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dr p ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Location: new york Points: 1396 |
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No drug company ever made a dime from exercise and proper nutrition. But there was a good point about blood sugar. I would be careful about monitoring that.
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Lars(wi) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 8035 |
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Dale, I would say it’s time to find a different Doctor.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12160 |
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I’ve been wondering…. I guess I’m the A-hole…. you just said you haven’t been able to walk to the machine shed in 2-3 years. And yet you’re going to farm again. How is this supposed to work? Sorry. I truly do hope you feel better. It’s a tricky path you’re on. And I’ve been wondering long before you just said this.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13693 |
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Well, just a few years ago, I made a list of my meds and reduced to a 3"X2" and covered it with Hvy Duty 2" scotch tape. Whenever I go to see any Dr and he whips out his RX pad, I whip my list out and ASK HIM TO HAVE A LOOK. They usually don't want to add to the list!!!!
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JohnColo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Apr 2020 Location: Niwot, CO Points: 1263 |
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Well Dale, I don't know what to tell you, other then maybe check in with another doc, not affiliated with United. Seems like 11 different meds are too many. I started on metformin last year and am feeling better and lost some weight, eating better too. In any event, I hope you continue to feel good and can do most anything you want. Question though, since you haven't been out to the buildings in a couple years, how did you keep the Pretty Machine operational?
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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I couldn't walk out to the shed, but I was able to take a golf cart there. all these meds come from one Dr and Pharmacy. when I was tractor hunting, had to make sure I could get into the tractor. the one I just bought I can. I treally wanted an 8000 series AC, but when I tried the in and out thing, it didn't work! I keep thinking about a farmer on YouTube, went by "harmless farmer", maybe ya'll have seen his postings, if not...you should. right now he's my insparation. I may have to have someone make me some extra steps for the tractors I already have. I did buy some from the guy on this forum for my 180 and 190, they help alot. so far i'm riding the old ladys......oooooops....i mean my loving wifes ATV...sidesaddle. I have substituted some of the meds with other things that's natural and it seems to be working. I've always had whatever I did on the farm made so I could do things myself. I still can on most things, just takes me a bit longer now. i'll still need a helping hand here and there, and have that mostly covered as well. I guess what it boils down to....so many have said I couldn't do it....well you all know what that answer is! still hafta go after the 180 I bought on Big Iron auction, and get my planter out and oiled/greased up! Ya'll be carefull out there!
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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Oh....and yes I am still monitoring my blood sugars and oxygen levels. so far so good!
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12160 |
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Well good luck to you. I hope you make out ok and don’t hurt yourself or have some sort of issue. Getting in and driving a tractor is one thing. Carrying seed bags, fixing equipment, being out there for hours is quite another.
I do wish you well and glad you’re feeling better. |
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24657 |
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the short tale of two friends.... both are 85ish.... one, walks everyday,eats well,99% homecooked meals, gardens and such,always phyically busy, even reshingled my garage roof 2 years ago other,sits,eats/drinks,gets driven or uses his a scooter( to get to bar...),has had several operations, his own drug store and won't lift a finger to help himself get healthy. The fewer man made drugs you put into your body, the sooner it'll heal itself, providing you eat sensibly and get SOME 'exercise'. I could go on and on, but apparently I have to get rid of 3 D-14s, implements and 100' shelving of small engines pretty soon....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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CrestonM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8455 |
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I’m glad to hear you’re on the up-and-up, Shameless! The comment earlier about big pharma not making any money off good diet and exercise is a good point. Hope you continue to feel better!
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13693 |
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Hey JohnColo, good to hear from you,,,Metformin has not enjoyed very good reviews but the "science" has not come up with a decent replacement. Some years back,, I asked My older Brother, who is a 34 year MD in a Milwaukee ER dept, what I should take instead of Metformin,,and he told me told that until the "science" caught up with results,,,he would continue to take his,,,,,
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DaveKamp ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6066 |
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Overmedication is a very serious and common problem. My apologies, this will be long, there's no way to escape it. Frequently, a doctor will prescribe a 'group' of medications, where one is for a specific problem, and several are to counteract the side effects. IMO, this is an extremely unwise SOP, because it usually includes a serious oversight of any other medications. Next, a review of the medications a person is on, and the REASONING for those medications, is in frequent order. Third... when prescribed, before you go get and start taking, look up each one and find out what it is for, and all the myriads of side effect, and ask yourself, is this actually what I'm dealing with? If you have the SLIGHTEST disposition about what you see and read, find a different doctor, and get a second opinion. Best one, is a friend who happens to BE a doctor, or recently retired, and ask them, as a friend, what THEY see in your situation. They will look at it from an objective position as a physician, but consider it as a FRIEND. About seven years ago, I got sent on a job assignment... in august... to a high altitude town in the southwest, on the border. The job demanded that I spend an extended amount of time inside a very high temperature environment, doing hard work. It was devistating to my health... heat stroke in a serious way, but not enough to kill me, or put me in an ambulance, but i knew I was in rough shape. I recovered carefully on my own, but upon arriving home about 12 days later, I had to report for bloodwork for an upcoming physical. Upon that physician's visit, he exclaimed that I was diabetic. I asked him how he came to that conclusion, he asked if I had any family that was on medication for diabetes, I told him my uncle, and he said YEP, family history... and then he showed that I had an A1C registering 6.1. He prescribed Metformin, a statin, and some other irrelevant med. I asked for clarification, because none of this matched my history. First thing I asked, was about the bloodwork... first, being the CBC results, and the A1C, and how they related to a glycemic condition. He responded that they no longer DO a CBC unless it is required for some OTHER reason, and that the diagnosis for diabetes is now totally based on A1C tests. The problems with his diagnosis is that: (1) that my uncle is in my direct bloodline... he is not. His WIFE is. (2) he totally ignored the fact that I TOLD him that the blood sample he took, was when I was still recovering from some really serious heat stroke (3) He did NOT perform a CBC, which would have revealed #2, but it would have clearly revealed that I have microcytic anemia... a genetic trait where my blood cells are about 30% smaller than 'normal'. MA is not unusual in people, while it is most frequent in certain areas, my heritage includes it. It is not deadly (in some ways, it affords some advantages), but in all cases, the standard chemistry tests don't work properly, and some don't work at all. (4) He did NOT perform due dilligence in his study of the A1C test. When I asked how long the A1C test had been considered the 'standard', he dodged the question, just saying that it is, and it's proven reliable. I asked again, and he dodged it. I asked him a THIRD time, and he walked out of the office for a few minutes, came back, and stated that it was made official test policy three months' prior. I asked him why a statin, with Metformin. His answer was that "Diabetics need to be on statins"... and nothing more. So I went home with his handful of infopapers, and the prescription he wrote. I placed a phone call to my cousin, who is an endocrinologist in Nashville. She is not only in my bloodline, she also experienced an A1C indication errant diagnosis of gestational diabetes whilst carrying her first child... and she carries the microcytic anemia trait. I explained the above situation, and the FIRST thing she said is: DON'T EVER TAKE STATINS... Next thing she said, is NOT to fill the prescriptions for Metformin or Statins until there's been a much more thorough investigation, and also, to NOT go in for any blood tests for at LEAST 6 months, because the heat stroke situation will not stabilize for at LEAST that much time. The next advise, was to research the statin, and it's relation to diabetes. The next, is to research the A1C test, and it's relevant error for those with Microcytic Anemia. I went next door, and spoke with my neighbor, who was also a physician. I asked him what a proper alternative could be. He said "Get a monitor, and watch it... see what your BG is doing, then decide". In research mode, Here's what I found: --- A high percentage of those who are NOT diabetic, become diabetic within 6 months of starting statins. --- Male patients confirmed to have microcytic anemia indicate on average 1 points HIGHER indication on the A1C, than those that do not... (so mine indicated as 6.1, is ac tually 4.1). Female patients (like my cousin) register significantly HIGHER, often over 4 points higher... on the A1C scale, than would be standard. My cousin's, DURING gestation, indicated 9.3, which was actually found through traditional tests at being 5.1) The A1C test also yields errant results for those with iron deficiency, and this not strangely correlates to the SAME reason that patients with Microcytic Anemia are frequently misdiagnosed with chronic Iron fDeficiency Anemia. I happen to be one of those kids that, at a young age, was diagnosed with IDA, and after being administered copious amounts of liquid iron supplement, I started suffering serious iron poisoning symptoms. After yelling and screaming fits, throwing the bottle out the window (yeah, it was closed when I did)... My mom realized how bad I was bleeding from it, and stopped, and got a different opinion... Now, after all this, I was having lunch with my dad, and he asked me about the heat stroke. As you can see from above, it was a long damned story, but his eyes lit up when I mentioned the statins. He had been steadily declining in energy, coordination, and other things for about three years, just felt like crap, couldn't catch his breath, and weak as a feather. He couldn't work outside, he couldn't exercise, he couldn't even drag an empty trashcan up the driveway to his garage. He went back to his doctor, and at 72ish, asked the doc about statins. I did not realize they'd put him on metformin, and he didn't realize they'd jumped to the same A1C conclusion. He stopped taking the statins and metformin, and continued observing his blood glucose... Kept eating salads, and cut back to one beer a day, returned to eating prime rib on Saturday night. Within three weeks, he was like a new man. Now, I'm not a doctor, I'm an engineer, a technician, a welding, wrench-turning, CNC building old-technology afficiando, a cat-whisperer, radio-tower climbing, chainsaw-wielding sponge of all things historical, and well-rounded polymath. When I'm not DOING things, I'm READING things, and looking to glean wisdom from the experience and guidance of others... and I'm always willing to share what I've learned (usually the hard way), as well as what I've learned from others. I'm not a doctor. I'm a SCRUTINIZER, and when I can, I look for ways to prove, or disprove a circumstance, and I always include the possibility that my observations or data are flawed. When I TEST something, I'm usually very careful about it, I look for critical variations and patterns, and if it looks awry, I reconsider swiftly. I've had plenty of unexpected results, and I have been fortunate to escape and recover from the bad situations without too much damage (none lethal so far). What I will say, is that my dad just celebrated his 85th birthday, and he still gets around fine. The 6 years he was on statins took him from having a wonderful everyday retired life, to a depressed invalid. Some of that timeframe took away his youthful strength, and I'll attribute SOME of it to just plain age, but MOST of it... BAD GUIDANCE. The concept is really simple: If some med sucks your life away, such that you all the stuff you USED TO DO to stay healthy, then THE MED IS UNHEALTHY. Being miserable, living life in a chair SUCKS. IMO, if someone diagnoses me with something that means my course of treatment will put me in a downward spiral, I will decline that, and continue living at full throttle 'till I die in my boots. Dad, like me, have different doctors now. My BG never goes above 130, and fasting timeframe is usually around 76. I haven't checked mine in over 8 months, and guarantee if I go up and test it right now, it'll be no more than 68. His is lower than mine most days of the week. In contrast, MOST diabetics I know, NEVER SEE the LOW SIDE of 150. Most people I know on statins, are withering away, weak, and sad. If one's BG is out-of-control, getting a meter, watching it, and carefully changing your diet and TIMING will show you how to DRIVE those numbers back to where they SHOULD be... without putting you within the perils of all those meds. So MY advise... as a friend of anyone who loves the subject of THIS forum, as well as anyone else who CARES about themselves and others: NEVER do it, without questioning the circumstance, and looking up the studies. there's LOTS of information out there. Ask your doctor, and then ask some OTHER doctor. Ask your lawyer... ask your neighbor, ask the high-school janitor... ask your friends. The answers you get, may give you insight that'll help you find a better future. (scroll to ADVERSE EFFECTS) Edited by DaveKamp - 21 Apr 2023 at 1:12am |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8613 |
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Thanks Dave for more amazing information. On another note...I hope your knee recovery goes well.
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24657 |
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YES Dave, a big 'thank you' !!! Sad you and others had to go through the BS, but you've shown what I've always thought... docs push pills, NEVER want to CURE you.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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klinemar ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Points: 8053 |
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I have a Farmer friend who has had 2 strokes. He has survived through being pure ornery and having worked hard his whole life his body was in good shape. Now time is taking its toll on him. He still continues to smoke and drink,he frets because no one in his family wants to milk cows and he can't. So the cows were sold. He goes to the Doctor and tells them nothing on how he feels, so they prescribe whatever medication the blood test tells or what they think he needs. Its sad watching him detiorate.
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shameless dude ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607 |
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Dave....thank you on all that info! gives me a hint on what to look up and study. the good docs we had, either retired/died/moved away. we are stuck with what's left. Joe....so what did your bro tell you? everything I see/read is/will be taken into consideration.
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13693 |
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Well, Shameless, Manuel has 30 plus years experience as an ER Dr in Milwaukee, SO I expect he's pretty much seen every kind of emergency possible. You hear somebody (s) preaching against Metformin, So, Natcherly, you get concerned with WHAT to do about your usage,,,SO,, I asked him!! His response was,,"When The Science catches up with Life as we know it, I will stop taking it myself and change to the new wonder drug",,,,,,,,? (ps, it ain't here yet) One of the biggest fallacies with medicine, is that every time one has to see a different Dr, they will most likely want to give you Their perscription for what THEY deem it IS that ailes you, never seeming to realize there may be serious INTERACTIONS with your current meds. One sure way is to carry a WRITTEN list of your current medications and present to Drs and Nurses so they can study it Before they issue ANY more new meds. Having visited with you recently and discussing our all our ailments, LOL,,I feel you are a Prime candidate for an extended visit with a Dr and a complete physical examination,,,then make you your meds list for future visits. That same Dr should inform you and Ms DeeAnn of any limitations you can be aware of. All the luck in the world, My Friend!!!!!
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Thad in AR. ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9653 |
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I hadn’t been to a Dr in years until I married a nurse.
She wanted me all checked out. They want to work in my back ( bottom 4 vertebrae) want to replace my right knee which I’m not ready to do and then I had to do a stress test. They put me on a treadmill. I was leaning on the rail due to back pain. The lady said I wasn’t doing it right and they were having problems with the machine. She didn’t want to be doing the procedure and i made sure my wife knew it. We went back for a Dr visit and the doc says we’re gonna have to use medicine to make your heart race and do that test that way since I was unable to walk on the treadmill. I reminded him that I walk on a job site 10 hrs a day with heavy objects on my shoulder, I climb ladders and climb around on roofs every day. Do you really think I can’t walk on a treadmill? I then told him I’d bet him $100 that I can walk twice as far on that treadmill than the unhappy gal giving the test. By now my wife was mad at me but I haven’t had to go see any more doctors. |
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12160 |
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It’s a tough choice. Some people get away with avoiding doctors for 90 years. Some die of stubbornness at age 40 because of something relatively simple. And doing your own doctoring is a lot like being your own lawyer. Hope y’all live long and prosper 🖖
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fixer1958 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2434 |
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Last spring about this time I went to work as usual but felt like total crap. By the time I got there the left side of my face was numb and hard to think. Left work and was going to go back home. The ER is about 2 miles from work, home is 30. Was having trouble navigating traffic so went to the ER. They immediately knew what was going on. Chances were I was having a stroke. They did every test they could possibly think of and determined it was a mini stroke brought on by a reaction to the high blood pressure meds I had started about a month prior.
Don't take any now and BP is fine. Anyway Thad was mentioning a stress test on a tread mill. I couldn't do that right either. Heartrate wouldn't get high enough and were flat out trying to kill me and stopped. Said tomorrow we will do it a different way. I'm all wired up and stick me in a CT then inject you with something to stress the heart. Kept telling me to hang in there. That is a sensation I will never forget. Told the nurse when I got out if that is what it was like to get a lethal injection. Counteract that with big cup of black coffee. I was alright by the time I got back to my room. Doc told me to take baby aspirin everyday and I would be ok.
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NEVER green ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Location: MN. Points: 8509 |
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I have a very hard time believing doctors after this COVID fiasco, every thing they stated about COVID was wrong, sure, there were a few doctors out there pushing the truth but they were ostracized and censored. |
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13693 |
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About 3 years ago, during one of my yearly follow up visits with my Cardiologist, they did the chemical injection stress test instead of the treadmill test, the plus side is that you are laying down Vs trying to outrun a machine controlled by someone else,,,,, ![]() ![]() I funny incidence that my wife had during a stress test is they started out slow and kept increasing the speed and since she was always a SLOW walker,,the machine started to outrun her and soon she was at quite a steep body angle away from the operator but the nurse refused to slow the machine to let her catch up until she started to scream and 2 other nurses ran into the room and yelled at the operator to STOP,,,,BY THEN she was at a very steep angle,,she let go and fell to the floor! Never said a word, just dusted herself off, glared at the operator and walked out of the hospital with the middle finger in plain view. Never would agree to another stress test,,,,,
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12160 |
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While I’m sorry your wife went through that and fell…..that’s an amazing ending!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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klinemar ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Points: 8053 |
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A fellow I knew growing up had been a Combat Medic with Patton's Third Army in WW2. Whenever any of us Teenagers got cut swimming or playing Max would cover the entire appendage with Mecurichrome and tell you that you'd be all right! Max only lived into his early seventies as he did drink a lot of Black Label Beer and smoked. When he was passing at his home he made everyone in his family to not take him to the Doctor or call an Ambulance. Max said I saw my last Ambulance and Doctor in 1945 and true to his wishes Max didn't see another!
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