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Burns-Tractor-Sales 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Location: Burns KS
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 Topic: Magneto spark question
Posted: 01 May 2011 at 2:50pm |
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I was working on my wd45 today, I just put in new points and condenser in the magneto, I then timed the mag and then installed it properly. I cranked over the engine and it would not fire, I could smell gas so I figured I must not have spark.
I pulled #1 spark plug and I grounded it out on the frame of the tractor and sure enough it has no spark? (the mag had spark when it was off the tractor). I then removed the mag, put on a plug wire, grounded it to the mag and there is a nice big blue spark? why would it have spark off of the tractor and not have spark when it is on the tractor.
I was just wondering if any one has ever had this happen to them?
Thanks for any advice
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Dnoym N. S. Can.
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Joined: 03 Oct 2009
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 3:00pm |
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would you have the kill switch off
or the wire ground by any chance
HTH
B:-) Dnoym
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 23846
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 3:01pm |
Any chance the 'kill' wire on the tractor is grounded ?
If the mag works fine off the tractor, that's the only thing I can think of.
I got stumped by a similar problem on a small rider, the mag kill wire was grounding out on the blower cover...it's the litle things that can drive you nuts !
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Location: Burns KS
Points: 97
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 6:02pm |
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I don't get it, I was just working on it again.
The kill switch is not hooked up, the mag has lots of spark, I mount it on the tractor and there is no spark at all? I can hold on the the spark plugs while the engine is being turned over and it does not shock me at all.
It has to be grounded out somewhere but I am not sure how, could it be internal on the mag?
Thanks for every ones help
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norm[ind]
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Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Location: bourbon,ind
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 6:32pm |
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do not knowhow you are checking the spark???? i check before is together found a bad rotor once
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acwd45man
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Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:05pm |
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WD45's did not have a magneto, either you have a late WD, or a WD45 with a WD engine block
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Tramway Guy
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Location: Watertown, NY
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:14pm |
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Is the impulse coupling 'snapping' like it should?
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NNYACAL
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:23pm |
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SURE SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE MAGNETO IS NOT GROUNDING TO THE ENGINE BLOCK. DIRT OR CORRISION ON THE ALUMINUM ON THE MAGNETO NEED TO BE REALLY SHINY TO GROUND. CLEAN EVERYTHING AND RETEST.
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G,IB,B,C,CA,RC,WC,WF,WD,WD45,D14,D17SERIES 1,2,4
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Dnoym N. S. Can.
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Joined: 03 Oct 2009
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:28pm |
well it look like you gut some reading to do let us know how you make out here is a link that will show you how to test the spark on your mag and time it to your engine i hope you find the problem http://www.worldpath.net/~thompson/acb/magtiming/magtiming.htmhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Magnetos/MagFMType.htmhth B:-) Dnoym
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Tedin NE-OH
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Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Location: OH
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:34pm |
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Are you trying to ground the test plug to a painted(insulated) surface and you really have spark.
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Location: Burns KS
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:37pm |
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I have been testing the mag by hooking up a plug wire and grounding it to the kill on the mag. When the mag was mounted on the tractor, my brother was holding on to the plug wires/plugs while holding on the the frame of the tractor and I was turning it over, he wasn't getting any kind of spark? I know kind of a dumb way to test it but it works:)
The tractor has never seen paint so I think the ground should be good, I will clean the mag and the mount tomorrow and then see what I have.
A friend told me it might be gravity, when I test the mag it is on it's side but on the tractor it is vertical, maybe something is shorting out but when the mag is on it's side it is fine?
Thank for every ones help
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:45pm |
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Don't ground a plug to the kill terminal on the mag. You might want to look the terminal over in the housing. There are fiber washers that insulate the terminal from the housing.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Location: Burns KS
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Posted: 02 May 2011 at 10:01pm |
 acwd45man wrote:
WD45's did not have a magneto, either you have a late WD, or a WD45 with a WD engine block |
The side of the grill says WD45, I know that isn't a surefire way to know but I never questioned it, would it be possible that someone replaced the distributor with a magneto? The tractor has a loader and it has tons of power, it also seems a little bit bigger then my WD
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 02 May 2011 at 10:02pm |
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What is the Serial number?
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Location: Burns KS
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 8:10am |
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Where is it located?
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 9:18am |
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Sounds like either the mag isn't grounded to the block, or the kill button is grounding somehow when it is bolt in the upright position on the tractor.
Bolt it back on the tractor and check continuity from the mag base to the engine block. Then check between the kill button and the block.
Is your oil filter housing bolted to a plate on the side of the block. If so it is a WD engine. Engine serial numbers (stamped on the left side rear of the block) and tractor number(stamped below the left brake cover on the differential housing) could be compared to figure out what you have.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 03 May 2011 at 9:26am
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Gerald J.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 10:03am |
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I've seen more than one WD with the WD45 decal.
And then engines are easily swapped.
Gerald J.
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Dave Richards (WV)
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 10:23am |
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While in tractor, check spark by turning the crank vs. the electrical starter. Faster rotation with the starter will advance the timing. Advanced timing may somehow be keeping the points from opening. not too likely, but it does use a different spot of the cam.
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 11:19am |
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I tested the mag upright like when it is mounted on the tractor and gave it a spin by hand and it has spark. I then hooked a drill up to it and spun it full speed and there was lots of spark so I don't think the speed or it being mounted upright has anything to do with it. I have cleaned the mag and the mount on the tractor, but yet still no spark?
I got the ser# off the tractor and it is 208387, and according to www.Tractordata.com it is a WD45. The oil filter isn't mounted on a plate, it just mounts straight to the side of the engine.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 12:03pm |
Are you checking the spark with the distributor cap off jumping from the button on the coil to the housing? Like Norm said earlier he found a bad rotor once. The cap could have a crack. When you put the cover and cap back on it, you did time the rotor to the mag didn't you? Try unhooking the kill wire from the mag if you haven't already.
Magneto ignition was quite likely optional for the farmer who wanted to keep the price of a new tractor down. The mix and matching of parts/engines on the WD-WD45 tractors could be why it has a mag too.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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cmsmoke
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 12:13pm |
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It is quite possible that the mag has enough play or wear in the bushings, that when it is mounted to the tractor, the forces of the rotating assemblies are pushing the points cam so far that points never get a chance to close (When set to factory specs.). I've seen this happen a few times. Try setting the points gap closer. It won't cost anything, but a few minutes to re-adjust the points. If you get it to run at least you will know that the mag or timing gear bushings may need some attention.
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 2:08pm |
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I just hooked up a drill to the magneto and I found out that when the mag is spinning at a low RPM it doesn't have very good spark but when I spin the mag at 1400RPM it has incredible spark?
Does any one know what could be causing this?
Thanks for any info
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wbecker
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 3:20pm |
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Is the impulse coupling snapping when you turn it slow? It needs the impulse to make the magnets turn fast enough at cranking speed.
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Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 4:14pm |
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I can spin the mag with one finger, I do have a parts mag that does have the "hard to turn" impulse, would there be any way to interchange the parts?
Thanks
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 4:45pm |
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You need a working impulse to get it to start.
Gerald J.
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Burns-Tractor-Sales
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 8:45pm |
I have found the problem. There was a broken spring, I had a parts
magneto, I was able to swap around parts and I now got it working, I was
just getting ready to mount it on the tractor when I dropped it on the
concrete and it broke the cap :( I now half to get a new cap and then I
will see if it works for sure. Thanks for every ones help 
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