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ACinSC 
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 Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 11:04am |
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Modirt , can you please post the axle stud part number . My D 15 has 7 studs and 1 bolt . Of course the bolt's leaking . Thanks
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wfmurray
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 11:56am |
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Reading about stud.Have a well worn 1940 machinest handbook. It has some details on studs.Helped dad put a pto on a wc when about 10 years old and it came with studs.Install stud by double nuts and run stud in all the way so it tightens on inperfect thread.This keeps it from leaking and keep it intack when removing nuts. Glad you found some studs.WAy to go BRENDA!
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modirt
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 1:33pm |
 ACinSC wrote:
Modirt , can you please post the axle stud part number . My D 15 has 7 studs and 1 bolt . Of course the bolt's leaking . Thanks |
Part number for the axle studs should be 70227525. That stud is about 3" in length.
Part number for hitch assembly, the one I've been looking for, is 70228028. Hasn't arrived yet, so we don't know what size it is.
BTW, before finding out I could get the OEM stud, I took a guess and ordered one from McMaster Carr. They called it a "setup stud". That one isn't going to work. Instead of a solid/smooth section in the middle, it has flat spots on it so you can turn it with a box end wrench. So no load bearing surface in the middle. In that, no better than all thread, even though it is a stud.
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modirt
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 1:41pm |
wfmurray wrote:
Reading about stud.Have a well worn 1940 machinest handbook. It has some details on studs.Helped dad put a pto on a wc when about 10 years old and it came with studs.Install stud by double nuts and run stud in all the way so it tightens on inperfect thread.This keeps it from leaking and keep it intack when removing nuts. Glad you found some studs.WAy to go BRENDA! |
We didn't have the manual, but after some deep thinking and discussion, came to the same conclusion on how to install it. Brilliant minds think alike?  Plus a sealant of some kind or locktite to "lock it" in place (tightening against the smooth, threadless part in the middle may also lock it in place), but it needs some kind of sealant to keep the oil from seeping out through the threads, plus if the threads are wet with oil, they will work loose easier.
Working loose and falling out must be an issue as none of the tractors we have to look at have the stud. It's been missing in action everywhere we look.
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bradley6874
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 2:42pm |
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Just curious did any brackets bolt to that stud say for a mid mount mower or mounted picker ? maybe !! never seen one on so just guessing
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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ACinSC
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Posted: 11 Oct 2018 at 2:56pm |
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Thanks modirt . Have my bolt out . Gonna take it to tractor supply and see what they have .
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modirt
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Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 2:32pm |
Well crap......
OEM stud arrived today and if this is right, I've got it all wrong.
From top to bottom.....
Cap screw....a 3/4" x 3" bolt. This is the one that came out of the hole. Look close at 4 bottom threads and you will see those have been flattened out.
Next down (#2) is the stud from the axle. When I screwed this stud up into the hole on the empty D14 casting we have to play with, it ran out of stud thread before it ran out of casting thread, so was going to need to be at least 1 1/4" of thread, plus the nearly 1" of flat spot for the hitch assembly to ride on, plus enough remaining thread for lock washer and nut. I figured it would need to be at least 3 1/2" long, and maybe 4". The all thread we have in it to plug the hole temp is 4". #2 stud is 3" long.
So #3 down from the top (red box) is what I was sent as the OEM part#70228028. Either I have it all wrong or this is NOT that part. This thing does not have enough thread to cover all the casting threads, and no flat spot for the hitch assembly to ride on like the #2 axle. In short, I have serious doubts this is the right part.
#4 down from the top is the stud I ordered from McMaster Carr. It seems to me to be closer to being right than any of the others, but again, has the flat spots on the middle part that will bear no weight.
So back to the drawing board.
If anyone has a D14, D15 or D17 parts tractor with one of these studs still in it, I would dearly love to have you pull it out to see what it is really supposed to be.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:32pm |
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The mcmaster carr one looks like the threads were rolled on, steada being cut with a die...
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 6:22pm |
Mo, part#70228028 Looks like a stud. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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modirt
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Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:02pm |
Yes it is a stud.....question is if the stud they sent me an honest to goodness 70228028.....or is it something else. The stud itself has no markings on it. None of them do. Worse, there is no place we can find with any sort of description in the way of dimensions. It is only described as a "stud".
BTW, Brenda found two locations who had these in stock. One in TN, another in WI. Mine came from TN. I called her back and she is going to check with WI to have them measure the OEM studs they claim to have and see if it is identical to this one. If it is, we have some head scratching to do. In every way I look at it, it seems wrong to me. It is too short and has no load bearing flat spot in the middle. Basically no different than a piece of all thread that is too short to work. 
And of course this all happens on a Friday, so good luck getting any kind of answer until next week.
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BrianC
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Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 8:23pm |
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D14/D15 had industrial versions I60, I600, 615.
Fiat bought the industrial part of Allis.
Minn-Parr has Fiat-Allis parts. They have the manuals for the above
(AGCO does not) available for download.
There is a draw bar bracket, held on with 3 bolts and one stud (3/4NC). Look around pdf page 186-194. Fiat-Allis p/n for that stud is 0236541-9 (615 tractor) or 236541 (for I600).
It might be the same as the ag tractors, in stock, who knows.
FYI, the 3/4 bolts are listed as 2.5" long. So maybe Brenda's official stud is the real deal.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 12:21am |
Mo, How thick is the plate and washer and nut stack up, that gets bolted on? That 7022... should bottom out ok when double nutted and locktite/sealant applied. Not sure which end goes in case? By design you only need 1.5 times thread sized for max engagement/ strength. Also not sure about the grade of all these, the AGco one might be the toughest???? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 8:24am |
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Maybe I missed it but are the 8 axle studs 3/4 10 NC ?? Thanks !!
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modirt
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Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 10:42am |
7022 Axle stud is 3/4 10.
OK, Brenda (gods gift to AC) called back this morning with two bits of news. WI checked their entire inventory and all are exactly the same. Plus, she had someone go out and check a parts tractor that is thought to have a factory installed stud and it is the same. So as near as we can tell, that 2 1/2" stud is the honest to goodness OEM stud.....which makes no sense whatsoever.
There is roughly 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" of thread in the transmission casting. So if you want to fill the entire hole with threads, you need that much. Or 1.5 x .75" = 1 1/8", but that wouldn't fill the threads. But even with that, the drawbar/hitch assembly still has about 3/4" to 1" of flat smooth surface that rides on the edge of the stud, and would still need enough thread left to mount a nut and washer protruding out beyond.
If you were to use the 2 1/2" OEM stud, it would offer little if any structural support to the hitch assembly acting as nothing more than a drain plug to fill the hole. Considering that all drawbar and 3 point loads are taken up in sheer and tension by just these 4 fasteners, giving up one of them to act as a cosmetic drain plug makes no sense. If this is right, it is no better than a simple piece of all thread, which offers minimal support to the drawbar assembly. The tips of the threads would quickly be rounded over and start doing nothing. That had already taken place on the existing cap screw.
Of all the options I have now, the 3" stud put in backwards to put the longest thread section in the casting to cover as many threads as possible, then let the hitch assembly ride on the smooth middle section, and hope you have enough threads left to attach a nut...is the best option.
Next best would be a cap screw like all the others, but it may take a shorter one with only a small area of smooth shoulder for the assembly to ride on. One with 1 1/2" of thread and about 1" smooth section below the head. 2 1/2" may be about right. That may not fill all the casting threads, but will get most of it. Will plug the hole and offer load bearing surface to boot. Now that I think about it, the existing 3" cap screw may have stopped going in when the smooth section of bolt hit the casting threads. Tightening up on that vs. the lock washer and bolt head drawing down tight. Maybe that is why it kept backing out?
Considering all of the tractors we have found that have no studs in them, it seems they were all replaced for some reason. Either they fell out, or were the wrong part for the job.
Edited by modirt - 13 Oct 2018 at 10:51am
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wfmurray
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Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 12:01pm |
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Think i would take some good measuements and have some made.Stud needs to bottom out on imperfect thread and have three threads below nut.I have made things out of a meterial called rye cut ,it is strong and tough.
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modirt
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Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 1:03pm |
Machining up something from scratch is certainly an option, but considering the large number of tractors there are......all with the same issue, finding an off the shelf solution would seem to be the best alternative.
If an actual stud is to be used (vs putting another cap screw back in), the 3" stud from the axle housing looks like the best option so far. And again, the parts unit we have has 8 of them just sitting around doing nothing.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 6:51pm |
I'd just go with the axle stud. They are free, more or less, for you to use...
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ACinSC
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 7:51am |
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Thanks modirt , I bought a grade 8 bolt at TSC . Couldn't find a stud . Cost $1.02 . Leak seems better . Good luck with your D 15
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wbecker
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 9:14am |
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I think you may have ordered the wrong type of stud from McMaster.
The one I think you need is what they call a "self locking stud".
It has longer threads on one end, and the threads that go into the casting are slightly larger diameter so they fit the casting tight.
I'm thinking you may have ordered a "spacing stud" ??
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 9:35am |
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I wonder if the ladies have this much trouble finding a stud that fits?
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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modirt
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 11:15am |
Below from McMaster Carr......I think this is the type you were thinking of. Problem being selection is limited, and none of the right size.
Best option still seems to be the Axle stud we already have.
Still hard to believe that with so many of these tractors out there, this issue has not popped up before with a known solution already devised.
Steel Vibration-Resistant Threaded RodsAlso known as tap-end studs, these rods have friction-fit threads on one end to resist loosening.
Screw the friction-fit threaded end into a tapped hole with a standard
thread fit to keep the rod securely in place as you fasten objects to it. The friction-fit end has a Class 5 thread fit and the machine-threaded end has a Class 2A thread fit. Rods can be removed and reused.  For technical drawings and 3-D models, click on a part number.
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| Lg. | Class
5 End | Class
2A End | Tensile
Strength, psi | Hardness | | Each | Steel |
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3/4"-10 |
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| 2 1/2" | 7/8" | 7/8" | 60,000 | Not Rated | 91563A345 | $2.50 | | 3" | 7/8" | 1" | 60,000 | Not Rated | 91563A347 | 2.61 | | 3 1/2" | 7/8" | 1 1/4" | 60,000 | Not Rated | 91563A349 | 2.77 | | 4" | 1" | 1 1/4" | 60,000 | Not Rated | 91563A351 | 2.94 |
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DrAllis
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 12:01pm |
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Well, with a 60,000 lb tensile strength, you better get more than one. That equates to a Gr #2 bolt. You'd think you were building a rocket ship to go to Mars. Use one of those good axle studs ( I know they are good quality) and add enough HARD washers if they are too long and use tons of Loctite after cleaning out the hole with tons of brake kleen and air dry. Or, simply get a Gr #8 bolt of proper length, using HARD flat washer/washers and a Gr #8 nut and torque to Gr #8 specs and get on with it !!! If you use a cheap soft flat washer anywhere on this repair, you are setting yourself up for failure down the road.
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 4:42pm |
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If this uses a split-type lockwasher, I wouldn’t think you would benefit with more than grade 2. Certainly not grade 8.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 6:06pm |
If the axle stud gives you the room, use a lock nut, on the remaining threads. I've had good service, out of the nylon insert grade 8 locknuts...
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Mikez
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Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 9:47pm |
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Sorry if you already got them, didn't read all posts but have nos studs your looking for
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modirt
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 2:22am |
If you have NOS, can you measure one and give the dimensions and possibly post a photo of it?
Curious if it is the same or different than the NOS stud we found before.
Unless it is different, we will be using the axle stud.
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modirt
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 11:41am |
BrianC wrote:
When you get the official part, I hope you post a picture and dimensions.
I would also like to know if the casting threads are a little "tighter" than the nut end.
Test with a nut, or in the casting. There are double ended studs, and also "tap end"
studs. Usually the tap end stud's thread is shorter thread length and of a tighter thread class.
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OK, now that I have had a chance to test the OEM stud on the parts casting, Brian's theory proved out. The two threads do not match. One is a tight fit, the other a loose fit. The same is also true of the axle stud.
However, as the axle stud came from the casting, the loose fit end was in the casting, yet it was not loose. I didn't take it out, but the guy who did had to use a pipe wrench on it and said it was moving the entire casting around to get it to free up.
A 3/4" nut spins on easy on one end, and is very tight on the other.
So decision time. Tight or loose fit end into the casting? BTW, on the OEM stud, threads are 1 1/4" (that will cover all casting threads), or 1 1/8", with half of a thread in the casting left exposed. Balance of the 2 1/2" stud being the 1/8" transition in the middle.
And still think the better option remains to use the axle stud with load bearing flat spot on it to take the load of the drawbar/hitch assembly vs. letting any load ride on the tips of the threads.
Photos below......casting was laid on it's side to test fit things. Top stud is one of the axle studs, lower one is an axle stud in the hole.....loose fit in.
2nd photo shows the OEM stud in the hole. There would probably be enough exposed thread to start a nut, but again, hitch assembly load would be riding on the tips of the threads.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 1:13pm |
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I would put the tight fit end in the casting, with sealant. My understanding is the interference fit on the threads is to help prevent them from working in the casting. If you put the loose end in you might as well use a bolt, as the thread fit will be like the bolt and the nut may lock up on the interference threads, and act like a bolt head. If the interference fit is enough with the nut, the stud will turn in the housing, like the bolt.
I have dealt with this type interference fit stud threads on some Allis Chalmers hydro turbines and other industrial equipment. The interference fit end was always in a casting and the nuts were on the running fit end. Those are my thoughts for what they are worth.
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modirt
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Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 1:18pm |
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That is how we see it too, and for those exact reasons, but wanted to run it by folks here first to confirm.
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modirt
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Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 8:40am |
The mystery of the OEM stud is starting to clear up. Turns out I screwed up. When searching for the part number, the stud I found was for the snap coupler assembly. It was the same for several models.
While searching for parts for the factory 3 point, I again noticed the mounting stud, looked, and lo and behold different part number. The correct part number for the factory 3 point is 70236541. Called Brenda and she found one of these too. And here is what the correct OEM looks like:
This one is about 3/8" longer than the axle stud, and the main difference is the width of the flat spot in the middle, which corresponds to the depth of the casting that mounts to it, plus threads on both ends are a bit longer.
I have not checked to see if the threads differ, but suspect they do.
Both the axle stud and this stud have an R etched on one end. My guess is that is the end that gets inserted. Don't know what R means, perhaps someone else does? The other end is smooth.
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