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Looked at another 12GB today

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Daehler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daehler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Looked at another 12GB today
    Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 10:32pm
Well i didn't buy the first one i looked at and another that came up. Its in a little better shape but couldn't get it started. Bad fuel and pretty cold. 96Y02433 is what i assume the serial is. The injection pump isnt an inline and is a standyne, so that doesn't seem rite, also doesn't have the second oil cooler like the last one but the front on the bottom is bent out but not gone like on the last one. Price is right but wondering why motor is different. Pretty sure its a 72 model. Any input would help as im just learning about differences between a 12G and 12G series B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 6:06am
Anything is possible on an older tractor, or the Roosa-Master style could be original to the engine. Serial number of the engine will tell for sure along with the tractor serial. If'n the tractor is a power shift and it doesn't have the transmission oil cooler, I'd say someone has swapped the engine from a non power shift tractor but your post is a bit confusing when you reference the "bottom" is bowed out, not missing. This sounds much like the original setup and the engine has frozen in the cold from lack of proper anti freeze mixture.

Just guessing on my part but photos once again would help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daehler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 7:31am
Its a powershift. I didn't get any pictures of it. How would transmission stay cool if it doesn't have a cooler? The front of where the bottom oil cooler should be is busted open and they put jb weld and a C clamp to try to button it back up.
8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 7:53am
It would run for a while before burning itself up. Your original post read as if the cooler was non existent as a engine from another donor, or manual sliding gear transmission which could/would not use the same type, (if any) cooler. Never been around one of those tractors that I remember so only surmising as no direct experience.

Your post reads as if someone didn't look after the cooling system properly. Is this the same owner as the other one looked at? If so, what other maintenance did they become "lax" upon? What you've seen with two tractors now is some of the most basic maintenance neglect as it's well known water freezes if not protected in the cold winter months.

There is something out there for you not located yet.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daehler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 12:18pm
Different owner. The cooler is not there, just a small round piece of pipe like in the diagram you posted in the last post. The thing is 4 and a half hours away so its going to be hard to get back down there to see if i can get it going. All the floor boards and most of the sheet metal around the seat is gone so that has me curious. Would like it since it has a ripper and really good rollers but the injector pump being differn and not having that other oil cooler has me a little discouraged.
8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 2:19pm
Most, if not all series "B" tractors I have been around had Roosa-Master injection pumps that I recall. I cannot cite any printed matter to attest to any accuracy but it's just what I remember. Nothing wrong with a Roosa-Master pump and much cheaper to keep in good repair that AMBAC pumps were. Parts are still available too.

This one sounds like it was run to destruction then replaced or excessed. Having a ripper and good u/c makes it appealing if can be bought right; and you have another tractor which can use the parts. I do that with my antique Mack trucks. Got to have at least one for spare parts as you don't get most over the counter any longer.

Cooling system maintenance is one of the easiest things to forget. Lose a water pump in the summer, replace the pump and fill it with water with intention of replacing the coolant in the future which is forgotten about as the engine is not overheating and works fine. First good cold snap and things break along with the rust that has formed on the innards of the engine parts..... if you are dead set on a 12G, I'd get it acquired for scrap value if possible and have it on hand for when you find a suitable tractor to run with. Keep in mind if you cannot move this thing yourself there will be $$$ involved just getting it home. 4.5hrs distant is going to equate to about 10-12 working hours to hire it done at whatever rate the trucking outfit charges. Usually about $4.50 per loaded mile plus permits and setup time. Many places charge empty miles also so a lot to look into. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 5:53pm
Maybe this will help....The parts books we have indicate the early 12Gs...engine serial numbers prior to 11- 17330 used Roosa Master (Standyne) pumps.  The 12GB book indicates...engines prior to 11-24059 used Robert Bosch (inline pump...engines 11-24059 up had Roosa Master.  We are currently trying to rejuvenate a 19751 12 GB that has a Roosa Master pump on it...it had been sitting for at least 15 years...got it running....but the pump gave up....The pump is now sitting on my desk after a $1000.00 rebuild...to wet to get to it to put it on. The other 12GB that should be coming home with it has a Robert Bosch fuel pump on it. That machine happens to be 10 serial numbers from the last one made in 1976. 
 So the oil cooler sounds like a problem. You're right if there is just a round tube in between there...sounds like a 11000 engine from something else...very common thing to switch an engine and have to add that other oil cooler...usually off the engine you took out..Are there hoses there somewhere?  Here's a page from the 12G parts book



Edited by AC Mel - 19 Mar 2023 at 5:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daehler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by AC Mel AC Mel wrote:

<font size="4" color="#0000ff">Maybe this will help....The parts books we have indicate the early 12Gs...engine serial numbers prior to 11- 17330 used Roosa Master (Standyne) pumps.  The 12GB book indicates...engines prior to 11-24059 used Robert Bosch (inline pump...engines 11-24059 up had Roosa Master.  We are currently trying to rejuvenate a 19751 12 GB that has a Roosa Master pump on it...it had been sitting for at least 15 years...got it running....but the pump gave up....The pump is now sitting on my desk after a $1000.00 rebuild...to wet to get to it to put it on. The other 12GB that should be coming home with it has a Robert Bosch fuel pump on it. That machine happens to be 10 serial numbers from the last one made in 1976. 
<font size="4" color="#0000ff"> So the oil cooler sounds like a problem. You're right if there is just a round tube in between there...sounds like a 11000 engine from something else...very common thing to switch an engine and have to add that other oil cooler...usually off the engine you took out..Are there hoses there somewhere?  Here's a page from the 12G parts book
<font size="4" color="#0000ff">




Doesn't have the big bottom one like you're picture shows. I didn't look too close for extra hoses as there was tons of leaves covering things up.
8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2023 at 7:25am
It doesn't have #4 in the photo? That is the engine oil cooler section. The top cooler is for the transmission. They both share the same coolant through the tubes shown. Oil flows over the tubes for heat exchanging. 
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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