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John Kelly on Trump and his policies

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    Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 1:55pm
From ‘The Atlantic’:

“ POLITICS
John Kelly Finally Lets Loose on Trump

The former chief of staff explained, in the clearest terms yet, his misgivings about Trump’s behavior regarding North Korea, immigration, and Ukraine.

PETER NICHOLAS
1:05 AM ET
MORRISTOWN, N.J.—Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the former National Security Council aide and impeachment witness President Donald Trump fired Friday, was just doing his job, former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly told students and guests at a Drew University event here Wednesday night.


Over a 75-minute speech and Q&A session, Kelly laid out, in the clearest terms yet, his misgivings about Trump’s words and actions regarding North Korea, illegal immigration, military discipline, Ukraine, and the news media.

Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general, said that Vindman is blameless and was simply following the training he’d received as a soldier; migrants are “overwhelmingly good people” and “not all rapists”; and Trump’s decision to condition military aid to Ukraine on an investigation into his political rival Joe Biden upended long-standing U.S. policy.

Vindman was rightly disturbed by Trump’s phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in July, Kelly suggested: Having seen something “questionable,” Vindman properly notified his superiors, Kelly said. Vindman, who specialized in Ukraine policy at the National Security Council at the time, was among multiple U.S. officials who listened in on the call. When subpoenaed by Congress in the House impeachment hearings, Vindman complied and told the truth, Kelly said.

“He did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave,” Kelly told the audience at the Mayo Performing Arts Center. “He went and told his boss what he just heard.”

Although Trump has long insisted that his call to Zelensky was “perfect,” Kelly made clear that Trump indeed conditioned military aid on Zelensky’s help digging up dirt on the Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.

That amounted to a momentous change in U.S. policy toward Ukraine—one that Vindman was right to flag, because other federal agencies needed to know about the shift, Kelly said.

“Through the Obama administration up until that phone call, the policy of the U.S. was militarily to support Ukraine in their defensive fight against … the Russians,” Kelly said. “And so, when the president said that continued support would be based on X, that essentially changed. And that’s what that guy [Vindman] was most interested in.”

When Vindman heard the president tell Zelensky he wanted to see the Biden family investigated, that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said. “We teach them, ‘Don’t follow an illegal order. And if you’re ever given one, you’ll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.’”

Throughout the appearance, Kelly laid out his doubts about Trump’s policies. Trump has held two formal summits with North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong Un, hoping to scuttle the country’s nuclear program through personal diplomacy. Kelly said the effort was futile.

“He will never give his nuclear weapons up,” Kelly said. “Again, President Trump tried—that’s one way to put it. But it didn’t work. I’m an optimist most of the time, but I’m also a realist, and I never did think Kim would do anything other than play us for a while, and he did that fairly effectively.”

Kelly didn’t know Trump when, after the 2016 election, he was first offered the job of secretary of homeland security. Watching the contest between Trump and the Democratic presidential nominee, Hillary Clinton, Kelly said he had been “fascinated—not necessarily in a good way—but fascinated as to what that election meant to our country.”

James Fallows: Serving Trump revealed who John Kelly always was

He said his wife urged him to accept the position, telling him, “I frankly think he needs you and people like you.” Kelly ran the Department of Homeland Security until the summer of 2017, when Trump tapped him to replace outgoing Chief of Staff Reince Priebus. Kelly left the White House early last year.

At times Wednesday, Kelly sounded like the anti-Trump. He said he did not believe the press is “the enemy of the people,” for example. And he sharply criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom Trump has steadfastly courted. Kelly described Putin as someone who is “not necessarily a rational actor.” Putin sits atop “a society in collapse,” yet is intent on restoring “the glory days of the Soviet Union,” he said.
At DHS, Kelly was responsible for advancing two of Trump’s top priorities: stopping the flow of illegal immigration, and building a border wall to make unauthorized crossings more difficult. In the speech, he said he disagreed with Trump about the scope of the problem. Trump’s border wall doesn’t need to extend “from sea to shining sea,” Kelly said. He also disapproved of the president’s language about migrants, he said. When Trump announced his candidacy in 2015, he famously described some migrants coming into the U.S. from Mexico as “rapists” and criminals.

Kelly said most migrants are merely looking for jobs. “In fact, they’re overwhelmingly good people … They’re not all rapists and they’re not all murderers. And it’s wrong to characterize them that way. I disagreed with the president a number of times.”

Responding to questions from the audience, Kelly faulted Trump for intervening in the case of Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was convicted last year of posing with the corpse of an Islamic State fighter. Trump reversed a Navy decision to oust Gallagher, in a chain of events that led to the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard Spencer.

“The idea that the commander in chief intervened there, in my opinion, was exactly the wrong thing to do,” Kelly said. “Had I been there, I think I could have prevented it.”

The audience applauded.“
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:

From ‘The Atlantic’:

“ POLITICS
John Kelly Finally Lets Loose on Trump

The former chief of staff explained, in the clearest terms yet, his misgivings about Trump’s behavior regarding North Korea, immigration, and Ukraine.

PETER NICHOLAS
1:05 AM ET
MORRISTOWN, N.J.—Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the former National Security Council aide and impeachment witness President Donald Trump fired Friday, was just doing his job, former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly told students and guests at a Drew University event here Wednesday night.


Over a 75-minute speech and Q&A session, Kelly laid out, in the clearest terms yet, his misgivings about Trump’s words and actions regarding North Korea, illegal immigration, military discipline, Ukraine, and the news media.

Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general, said that Vindman is blameless and was simply following the training he’d received as a soldier; migrants are “overwhelmingly good people” and “not all rapists”; and Trump’s decision to condition military aid to Ukraine on an investigation into his political rival Joe Biden upended long-standing U.S. policy.

Vindman was rightly disturbed by Trump’s phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in July, Kelly suggested: Having seen something “questionable,” Vindman properly notified his superiors, Kelly said. Vindman, who specialized in Ukraine policy at the National Security Council at the time, was among multiple U.S. officials who listened in on the call. When subpoenaed by Congress in the House impeachment hearings, Vindman complied and told the truth, Kelly said.

“He did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave,” Kelly told the audience at the Mayo Performing Arts Center. “He went and told his boss what he just heard.”

Although Trump has long insisted that his call to Zelensky was “perfect,” Kelly made clear that Trump indeed conditioned military aid on Zelensky’s help digging up dirt on the Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.

That amounted to a momentous change in U.S. policy toward Ukraine—one that Vindman was right to flag, because other federal agencies needed to know about the shift, Kelly said.

“Through the Obama administration up until that phone call, the policy of the U.S. was militarily to support Ukraine in their defensive fight against … the Russians,” Kelly said. “And so, when the president said that continued support would be based on X, that essentially changed. And that’s what that guy [Vindman] was most interested in.”

When Vindman heard the president tell Zelensky he wanted to see the Biden family investigated, that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said. “We teach them, ‘Don’t follow an illegal order. And if you’re ever given one, you’ll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.’”

Throughout the appearance, Kelly laid out his doubts about Trump’s policies. Trump has held two formal summits with North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong Un, hoping to scuttle the country’s nuclear program through personal diplomacy. Kelly said the effort was futile.

“He will never give his nuclear weapons up,” Kelly said. “Again, President Trump tried—that’s one way to put it. But it didn’t work. I’m an optimist most of the time, but I’m also a realist, and I never did think Kim would do anything other than play us for a while, and he did that fairly effectively.”

Kelly didn’t know Trump when, after the 2016 election, he was first offered the job of secretary of homeland security. Watching the contest between Trump and the Democratic presidential nominee, Hillary Clinton, Kelly said he had been “fascinated—not necessarily in a good way—but fascinated as to what that election meant to our country.”

James Fallows: Serving Trump revealed who John Kelly always was

He said his wife urged him to accept the position, telling him, “I frankly think he needs you and people like you.” Kelly ran the Department of Homeland Security until the summer of 2017, when Trump tapped him to replace outgoing Chief of Staff Reince Priebus. Kelly left the White House early last year.

At times Wednesday, Kelly sounded like the anti-Trump. He said he did not believe the press is “the enemy of the people,” for example. And he sharply criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom Trump has steadfastly courted. Kelly described Putin as someone who is “not necessarily a rational actor.” Putin sits atop “a society in collapse,” yet is intent on restoring “the glory days of the Soviet Union,” he said.
At DHS, Kelly was responsible for advancing two of Trump’s top priorities: stopping the flow of illegal immigration, and building a border wall to make unauthorized crossings more difficult. In the speech, he said he disagreed with Trump about the scope of the problem. Trump’s border wall doesn’t need to extend “from sea to shining sea,” Kelly said. He also disapproved of the president’s language about migrants, he said. When Trump announced his candidacy in 2015, he famously described some migrants coming into the U.S. from Mexico as “rapists” and criminals.

Kelly said most migrants are merely looking for jobs. “In fact, they’re overwhelmingly good people … They’re not all rapists and they’re not all murderers. And it’s wrong to characterize them that way. I disagreed with the president a number of times.”

Responding to questions from the audience, Kelly faulted Trump for intervening in the case of Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was convicted last year of posing with the corpse of an Islamic State fighter. Trump reversed a Navy decision to oust Gallagher, in a chain of events that led to the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard Spencer.

“The idea that the commander in chief intervened there, in my opinion, was exactly the wrong thing to do,” Kelly said. “Had I been there, I think I could have prevented it.”

The audience applauded.“


   My God...…   Show me proof Trump conditioned military aid for an investigation!!!!!!   There is none, stupid, stupid, stupid.

As a matter of fact the Ukrainians got their military aid, the Javalin missiles before the call.

I grow so weary of this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:07pm
If they had proof they would of brought it out during the impeachment hearings in the House. There isn't any and Tammy knows it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

If they had proof they would of brought it out during the impeachment hearings in the House. There isn't any and Tammy knows it.


Exactly, there is positively, absolutely none... how many times do we have to go over this.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:14pm
There was plenty of proof; from Mulvaney admitting it (“...get over it!”), to witness testimony, to Trump himself (“ I mean, I asked it very point-blank, because we're looking for corruption. There's tremendous corruption. Why should we be giving hundreds of millions of dollars to countries when there's this kind of corruption?").
It was good enough for multiple Senators to admit he was guilty of it(including Republicans).

But you can’t understand English, I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:

There was plenty of proof; from Mulvaney admitting it (“...get over it!”), to witness testimony, to Trump himself (“ I mean, I asked it very point-blank, because we're looking for corruption. There's tremendous corruption. Why should we be giving hundreds of millions of dollars to countries when there's this kind of corruption?").
It was good enough for multiple Senators to admit he was guilty of it(including Republicans).

But you can’t understand English, I guess.
\

You can understand English but have no comprehension. When did the investigation start Trammy. When did the Ukrainians complain of Trump pressuring them?
Come on Trammy, they got their money and no investigation. Does do us a favor even sound remotely like pressure, not to a normal person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:26pm
Accusations without backing is just accusations, goes nowhere, meant to Smear the person they are Accusing and is ONLY good for that. Can backfire if No Substance as they drop these emotional turd bombs, they border on Criminal Libel Defamation in not supplying substantive evidence. Even the Hoes as Stormy figured that out, the hard way.

Edited by DMiller - 13 Feb 2020 at 4:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Accusations without backing is just accusations, goes nowhere, meant to Smear the person they are Accusing and is ONLY good for that. Can backfire if No Substance as they drop these emotional turd bombs, they border on Criminal Libel Defamation in not supplying substantive evidence. Even the Hoes as Stormy figured that out, the hard way.


   Dave, if you were being pressured wouldn't you at least be aware of it? Sorry I got tired of asking the Trammy and Steve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smokechaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 5:02pm
Good grief, that OP is so riddled with negative spin and outright LIES I don't even know where to begin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 5:05pm
Another straw, for tranny to grasp at, YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNN!Sleepy


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 5:33pm
Although Trump has long insisted that his call to Zelensky was “perfect,” Kelly made clear that Trump indeed conditioned military aid on Zelensky’s help

and THAT IS A LIE... when you start telling ONE, you cant quit.... KELLY was a General and use to running the SHOW... He got to the White House and learned he was TAKING ORDERS... he didnt like that.... Mad Dog and a couple others fell into the same catagory...


Edited by steve(ill) - 13 Feb 2020 at 5:34pm
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansas99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by smokechaser smokechaser wrote:

Good grief, that OP is so riddled with negative spin and outright LIES I don't even know where to begin!


That is no shi$!  As I read it I thought holy crap I'll dispute this crap, but by the time I got to the end I decided I need at least a day or two to straighten that post out, it is garbage top to bottom damn near.  But I will save it for the day I'm not in and out the house checking cows calving.  

For now Trammly had beat us with stupid. Big smile


Edited by Kansas99 - 13 Feb 2020 at 7:00pm
If we get NUKED, it'll be by missiles built by technology given to China by Clinton, funded by Iran money from Obama with warheads made with uranium sold to Russia by Hillary. But Trump is a traitor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 7:54pm
“ Good grief, that OP is so riddled with negative spin and outright LIES I don't even know where to begin!”

What is not truthful?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 8:19pm
EVERYTHING......... its all SPIN and OPINIONS.... Not FACTS.

FACTS are that TRUMP asked Uraine to look into corruption including Biden
--- TRUMP said this months ago and even released the transcript saying so.
FACTS are that he did NOT with hold money until they agreed to look into Biden ( never did)
FACTS are that Ukraine said they were not pressured
FACTS are that Ukraine said they did not know the military aid was being held up
FACTS are that the bummer NEVER GAVE MILITARY AID to Ukraine


Edited by steve(ill) - 13 Feb 2020 at 8:20pm
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 9:16pm
Your opidippitery you hang your dog poo on is just that. Started to read the t[a/u]rd piece and got to the, "Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general, said that Vindman is blameless and was simply following the training he’d received as a soldier;" piece of She~it and that was far enough because, when your taught to just report to the next rank up, you don't go out of the chain of command, nor do you leak it to outside sources.... and your vindboy was NOT doing as he was taught... and WAS NOT working soley or to the descretionary to the President...thus your piece was e'FFFFed... for FAIL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 9:59pm
How amazing is it that two different demonstrably honorable military men, can BOTH be wrong about Trump? Particularly since the person they have contradicted has never served in the military, and quite possibly faked bone spurs to avoid being drafted?

Who ya gonna believe??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:07pm
“.... even released the transcript saying so.”. It was not a transcript. It even says so on the memo, which is what it was. The transcript, if there is one; is stored on a server somewhere.

“ FACTS are that he did NOT with hold money....”. They most certainly did.

“ FACTS are that Ukraine said they were not pressured.”. Depends on who you ask.

“ FACTS are that Ukraine said they did not know the military aid was being held up.” . Yes, they did know. That’s why they asked about it multiple times.

“ FACTS are that the bummer NEVER GAVE MILITARY AID to Ukraine.”. Irrelevant, but there was a good reason. Congress wouldn’t, either. Ukraine was corrupt at the top AT THE TIME.

Edited by TramwayGuy - 13 Feb 2020 at 10:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:15pm
After watching you fools trying to take down Trum.p with trumped up charges with no bases... and never stopped your bitchin and bellinachin and crying for over three years and causing all kinds of hell with your dammed stupid lies and deceits, I will take Trumps words and actions over the stupid fools you follow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:20pm
Sir, someone has to watch out for the Country. And no, the charges have good basis. Someday enough will wake up to what’s going on.

Which words do you like to take from Trump?

     “Grab em by the pu$$y”
     “Punch him in the face!”
      “There are good people on both sides.”
       “I could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue [and get away with it]”
       “Mexico will pay for it”
       “We will have great healthcare.”
   
There are lots more. Maybe you like some others.

Edited by TramwayGuy - 13 Feb 2020 at 10:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 11:01pm
Keep your doctor if you like your doctor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 11:18pm
Seems them libs are on some dam good hallucinating meds already and follow the traitor socialist dem party like little lemmings ... Hump trump three four hump trump three four etc. etc. etc.
 And these dam fools will never understand how much they have been lied to... Even when it is displayed in plain sight many a times.  That is because of their full blown hate for a republican getting elected in 2016 over their Dem WITCH HILLARY... and it is called TDS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 12:52am
Keep your BS up, even Vindman's Superiors said Vindman did not follow the rules many times before.  Hence vindman is NOT A TRUSTWORTHY soul... and got kicked out for another one of his self gratifying actions.  
  You back vindman up or support him, whatever, you are giving your allegiance to a CON MAN

Lt. Col Alexander Vindman was removed from his position with the National Security Council and escorted out of the White House on Friday after testifying against President Trump in the recent impeachment trial.

Vindman, who is the head Ukraine expert on the council, was a key witness in Trump’s impeachment inquiry, which infuriated the president.

“Today, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman was escorted out of the White House where he has dutifully served his country and his President. He does so having spoken publicly once, and only pursuant to a subpoena from the United States Congress,” David Pressman, Vindman’s attorney, said in a statement.

There were reports on Thursday and Friday that the White House was considering relieving Vindman of his duties. Trump told reporters on Friday that he was unhappy with Vindman and signaled that he was on his way out.

“I’m not happy with him. You think I’m supposed to be happy with him? I’m not,” Trump said.

Although Vindman is no longer working in the White House, he is scheduled to work at the Pentagon until he leaves there to go to War College in July.

The reason for the impeachment inquiry was a July 25 phone call in which it was alleged that Trump denied funds to Ukraine pending investigations targeting political rivals.

Vindman said he directly listened in on the phone call and testified that he was “concerned” by what he heard.

“It was inappropriate, it was improper for the president to request — to demand — an investigation into a political opponent, especially a foreign power where there’s at best dubious belief that this would be a completely impartial investigation,” he said. “This would have significant implications if it became public knowledge, and it would be perceived as a partisan play that would undermine our Ukraine policy, and it would undermine our national security.”

Vindman testified that immediately after the call ended, he reported his concerns to John Eisenberg, the NSC’s top lawyer.

President Trump defended his firing of Vindman, saying he was “very insubordinate”. The president posted a series of messages on his social media account and said that Vindman incorrectly reported the contents of a “perfect” phone call that was at the center of his impeachment. Trump said he didn’t know Vindman personally, but that his superiors indicated that he had repeated problems with judgement and adhering to the chain of command, which is obviously an issue for anyone in his position.

“Actually, I don’t know him, never spoke to him, or met him (I don’t believe!) but, he was very insubordinate, reported contents of my perfect calls incorrectly, &. was given a horrendous report by his superior, the man he reported to, who publicly stated that Vindman had problems with judgment, adhering to the chain of command and leaking information. In other words, OUT,” Trump wrote on his social media pages.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 6:48am
“... given a horrendous report by his superior, the man he reported to, who publicly stated that Vindman had problems with judgment, adhering to the chain of command and leaking information.”

From Factcheck.org:

“ Fact-Checking Trump’s Defense for Removing Vindman
By D'Angelo Gore

Posted on February 12, 2020

President Donald Trump defended removing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from the White House’s National Security Council by claiming that Vindman’s “superior … publicly stated that Vindman had problems with judgement, adhering to the chain of command and leaking information.” But the latter claim leaves a false impression, and the others omit important context.

Trump is referring to Timothy Morrison, who was the NSC’s senior director for Russia and Europe, and Vindman’s direct supervisor for a little more than three months in 2019, from mid-July through the end of October.

Here is a summary of what Morrison did and didn’t say about Vindman, who, like Morrison, listened in on Trump’s July 25 call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky and testified in the House impeachment inquiry:

Morrison did not say that Vindman “had problems with … leaking information,” as Trump claimed. Morrison said that some of his colleagues expressed to him that Vindman may have leaked information, but Morrison never said that he believed those claims.
Morrison did say that he and other officials had concerns about Vindman’s judgment. But Fiona Hill, who was Vindman’s supervisor for a year before Morrison, said she didn’t question his “overall judgment” or “his substantive expertise.” In fact, Hill wrote that Vindman displayed “excellent judgment,” according to a performance review that Vindman quoted from during public testimony.
Morrison also said that Vindman did not follow the chain of command when Vindman reported his concerns about the Trump-Zelensky phone call to NSC’s legal counsel. He said he would have preferred that Vindman came to him first, but he also said that that wasn’t unusual because things worked differently under Hill, whom Morrison replaced at the NSC.
Trump tweeted about Vindman on Feb. 8, one day after Trump removed him from his position as the NSC’s director for European affairs. Vindman was originally scheduled to leave his post at the White the House in July, when his detail was set to end.

His early dismissal was described by several congressional Democrats as a form of retaliation for agreeing to be a witness in the House’s impeachment proceedings. Vindman testified that he felt it was “improper for the president of the United States to demand a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen and a political opponent,” a reference to Trump asking Zelensky to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.

National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien, at an event for the Atlantic Council on Feb. 11, denied that the decision to remove Vindman was a retaliatory move. “I can absolutely tell you they were not retaliated against,” O’Brien said, referring to Vindman and his twin brother, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman, who was not an impeachment witness but was also removed from his post as an NSC lawyer and ethics official.

Both men have been reassigned to the Department of the Army, an Army spokeswoman said in a statement to multiple news outlets.

In his Twitter post, Trump also claimed that Vindman “was very insubordinate,” “reported contents of my ‘perfect’ calls incorrectly,” and “was given a horrendous report by his superior.” “In other words, ‘OUT,'” Trump wrote.

An attorney for Vindman released a statement calling the president’s statements “obviously false.”

Claims of Leaks
It’s not true that Morrison said Vindman “had problems with … leaking information,” as Trump wrote.

In his closed-door deposition on Oct. 31, Morrison actually answered “no” when Republican counsel Steve Castor asked him if he ever had “any concerns” that Vindman “might leak something.” Morrison told Castor that others had told him that they believed Vindman may have leaked information, but Morrison was advised by his lawyer not to elaborate further.

Then, during a public impeachment hearing on Nov. 19, Morrison said he “didn’t believe or disbelieve” what he was told about Vindman possibly being the source of White House leaks.

On CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Feb. 9, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham also suggested that Vindman may have leaked information to the anonymous whistleblower who last August filed a complaint about Trump’s call with Zelensky with the inspector general of the intelligence community.

“He’s never been asked questions, ‘did you leak to the whistleblower?’” Graham said.

Vindman may have never been asked that question, but Vindman has denied divulging information to anyone who was not authorized to have it.

“I never did, never would,” Vindman responded when he was asked during his November public testimony if he ever leaked anything. “That is preposterous that I would do that.”

Vindman said that he gave a readout of Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky to only two people outside of the NSC, and both, he said, were “cleared U.S. government officials” with a “need to know”: George Kent, deputy assistant secretary for European and Eurasian affairs in the State Department; and another person who worked within the intelligence community, whom Vindman’s attorney advised him not to name.

Vindman also has denied knowing the identity of the whistleblower.

Questions About Judgment
It’s true that Morrison said in his October deposition that he “had concerns” about Vindman’s “judgment.” He later explained that meant Vindman “did not always exercise the best judgment in terms of the policymaking process and — the policy process.” He also said he “had concerns” that Vindman “did not exercise appropriate judgment as to whom he would say what.”

In addition, Morrison said that Hill and others told him they had concerns about Vindman’s judgment, too.

But in her public testimony, Hill clarified that her primary concern was that Vindman, because of his military background, might not be suited for a position that was becoming increasingly political.

“Col. Vindman is a highly distinguished, decorated military officer … and we were evaluating and looking at him in the context of what his future positions would be in the context of the U.S. Army,” she said. “And I was concerned that if, for example, Col. Vindman might decide to leave the military, that perhaps he wasn’t as well suited for something that would be much more political. I did not feel that he had the political antenna to deal with something that was straying into domestic politics. Not everyone is suited for that.”

But, she added: “That does not mean in any way that I was questioning his overall judgment nor was I questioning in any way his substantive expertise. … This was a very specific issue because by June, we saw that things were diverging and he needed a completely different sensitivity.”

And in his public testimony on Nov. 19, Vindman quoted from Hill’s final performance review of him, which he said reads, in part: “Alex is a top 1 percent military officer and the best Army officer I have worked with in my 15 years of government service. He is brilliant, unflappable and exercises excellent judgment.”

Chain of Command Concerns
It’s also true that Morrison said that Vindman did not follow the chain of command when Vindman reported his concerns about Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky to lawyers at the NSC instead of Morrison. Morrison said he would have preferred that Vindman came to him first, but it was not unusual for him not to do so because of the way things worked under Hill, who was Vindman’s supervisor before Morrison.

Morrison had only been Vindman’s supervisor for a little more than a week at the time the call between the presidents took place.

“My predecessor had a different style for managing her staff than I do,” Morrison said during his private testimony in October. “She did not have the same view of how reporting through the chain of command should work.”

Vindman testified that he went to NSC lead counsel John Eisenberg first because Eisenberg previously told Vindman that he could come to him with such concerns. Vindman said he earlier had reported concerns about topics discussed during a July 10 meeting with Gordon Sondland, the former U.S. ambassador to the European Union, to the NSC legal team. It was at that point, Vindman said, when Eisenberg told him that he could come to Eisenberg with similar concerns in the future.

When he was asked in his November public hearing why he didn’t go directly to Morrison, Vindman said he tried to but didn’t get a chance to talk to Morrison before Eisenberg advised him not to talk to anyone else about the Trump-Zelensky call.

“I went immediately .. per the instructions from the July 10 incident … to Mr. Eisenberg,” Vindman said. “I attempted to try to talk to Mr. Morrison. That didn’t happen before I received instructions from John Eisenberg to not talk to anybody else any further.”

The White House did not respond when we asked what Trump meant when he tweeted that Vindman “reported contents of my ‘perfect’ calls incorrectly.”

It’s possible Trump was referring to the fact that Vindman went to Eisenberg instead of Morrison with his concerns. The president may have also been referring to a discrepancy about what the White House said Trump and Zelensky discussed in their first phone conversation on April 21, 2019, when Trump called to congratulate Zelensky on winning Ukraine’s presidential election that day.

The White House originally released a statement about the congratulatory call that said Trump mentioned working with Zelensky to “root out corruption” in Ukraine. But a memo of the call that the White House released months later showed that Trump never brought up corruption. At the time, a White House spokesman said Vindman, who was the NSC’s top expert on Ukraine, prepared the readout of the call and was responsible for the error.

Vindman testified that the statement about the call put out by the White House was “not entirely accurate” because Trump did not mention corruption, which had been included in the talking points that Vindman prepared in advance for Trump to use in the call.

But to be clear, we are not aware of any evidence that Vindman relayed false information to anyone about what Trump and Zelensky discussed during their July 25 conversation.”
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LouSWPA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 7:02am
Originally posted by Walker Walker wrote:

Keep your doctor if you like your doctor.

Frankly, what difference does it matter now
those jobs are gone, and never coming back
If I had a son, it would be just like him
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 7:45am
It's not fair Lou, no one showed the Bummer where the magic wand was hid. 

And Hildebeast wouldn't share her broomstick. Wink



Edited by Lonn - 14 Feb 2020 at 7:46am
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 8:12am
Tranny.......... your OPINION mean NOTHING.. Its over.. The LIARS and SWAMP DWELLERS are being exposed and ELIMINATED... Your Bich is gone, with many others... You continue to SNIVEL and WHINE and TRUMP KEEEPS DOING HIS JOB... SUPPORTED by the AMERICAN PEOPLE !!!  GO TRUMP 2020- 2024 --?? 
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 9:17am
"...just eat the apple, Eve."
And >poof!< some people are so easily deceived.
I need more than 200 characters for my "signature." I'd love to see that changed to 250!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 11:40am
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 12:06pm
“ Keep your doctor if you like your doctor. ”

I kept mine.   Most people did, in fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 12:08pm
“ The LIARS and SWAMP DWELLERS are being exposed and ELIMINATED..”

And replaced by what? The same thing, except they now don’t give a rat’s a$$ about you or me. They are loyal only to one thing......and it isn’t the USA.

Edited by TramwayGuy - 14 Feb 2020 at 12:08pm
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