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Incompetence

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ford8nwd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 7:39pm
It's pretty sad the way this country has fallen due to covid 19. It didn't have to be this way. This has been mis-managed from the word go. We've had inept' incompetent leadership.   Trump has been an absolute disaster from being way late to even recognize the problem, and then doing nothing. We are still way behind where we should be with testing, with our leader downplaying the importance. Then the ppe supplies which were woefully short and Trump refusing to do anything, Why didn't he use the wartime act? He has refused any responsibility for this whole fiasco. He's been a day late and a dollar short, while other countries took the hard path and enacted difficult measures which have worked. Look at Italy, how bad they were, now they are just about back to normal, but they had leadership. If this thing had been handled in an efficient, timely manner thousands of our citizens would still be alive. Pretty sad isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 7:52pm
You have a inane way of reading the most BS into a reality I have ever seen. This has been battered about before did you not pay attention LAST TIME? STILL WRONG. China Released It Congress excused it as Trump shut down flights. OBUMMER failed to restore the PPE Supplies that Trump DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE OUT, and you have the unmitigated gall to complain Trump was the problem. You sir are the LOSER of LOSERS. No one has forgotten the REAL Time Line so your misread is STILL WRONG,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 7:55pm
Can you NOT READ?

These are the WORST States for numbers , and Guess what, BLUE INCOMPETENT States.

https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wuhan-flu-update_topic172444_post1450873.html#1450873

Edited by DMiller - 29 Jun 2020 at 7:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve (MT) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:05pm
Just think about how nice it could be if we had a real President in times like this. Trump's base thinks the virus is still a hoax because the orange chosen one refuses to wear a mask.
Pretty sad????? Hell no, I would say it is sickening!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:11pm
POOR IGNORANT PISSER..... Italy is what, about the size of New York ??  YEP, they BOTH HAD DISASTERS... and now they are doing BETTER..... The US MIDWEST and SOUTH never saw that FLU... Now it has arrive here, just like it has arrive in Brazil and Mexico.. SO WHAT ???   The SOUTH and WEST are NOT NY...... Any simple idiot like yourself should be able to see that......... and look at the DATA.. MORE CASES... but LESS DEATHS... SO WHAT ?
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:11pm
What is a hoax, is the narrative surrounding the Wuhan virus issue.
Ever hear the term ‘false flag’?
Look it up, study it, educate yourself on past examples of true ‘false flags’.
Then get back to us.
It will take you a few weeks of intense study.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:13pm
Can you imagine the cluster fk we would be in if the BICH or Dead from the NECK UP had been in charge ?? TOTAL SHUT DOWN... NO ECONOMY.. NO FOOD.. NO NOTHING... We would all be speaking Chineese by now.. PISSY and Schmuckie are no better... LIEING TURDS.
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Can you imagine the cluster fk we would be in if the BICH or Dead from the NECK UP had been in charge ?? TOTAL SHUT DOWN... NO ECONOMY.. NO FOOD.. NO NOTHING... We would all be speaking Chineese by now.. PISSY and Schmuckie are no better... LIEING TURDS.

I disagree, Steve, shrillery woulda taxed us to death by this point, and look what obummer did, when there was  another form of covid, during his watch! That's right, nothing!

This whole scenario has been ginned up by the left, because nothing else they tried, to dislodge Trump, from the White House, worked!  My prediction is is that this covid nonsense disappears after Trump is re-elected!  Also, they'll try the same old sh!t, again...LOL
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:21pm
Total population of 4-5 different European Countires is 2/3 of the USA... and they have MORE DEATHS than we do............... Too many IDIOTS can't read the fACTS.

Italy ( YOUR BUDDIES) have 5.5 times LESS PEOPLE than the USA and we have less than 4 TIMES the death rate................ ?? MORON ??  

#

Country,
Other

Total
Cases

Total
Deaths

Population

1

USA

2,681,802

128,778

330,996,984

3

UK

311,965

43,575

67,885,079

4

Italy

240,436

34,744

60,461,762

5

France

164,260

29,813

65,273,353

6

Spain

296,050

28,346

46,754,775




Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Jun 2020 at 8:34pm
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:29pm
Keep in mind everyone, the Wuhan Virus was unleashed on purpose by the Chinese govt, in retaliation for submitting to trade deals that were not slanted as far in their favor as past. This was coordinated hand in glove with the Dimocrate, and MSM operatives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 8:36pm
well, i dont know Lars... but it DOES seem like PISSY, SCHMUCKIE and DEAD from the NECK UP are all HOPING for more DEATHS so they can BLAME TRUMP !!

another IMPEACHMENT is on the way !!!

and PISSY wants another $3 TRILLION in CHEESE to Bankrupt the COUNTRY !


Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Jun 2020 at 8:37pm
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ford8nwd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 9:08pm
Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 9:11pm
SO WHAT ??? Death rate is WAY DOWN... People also get the Yearly flu and other sicknesses... Its the DEATH rate that counts ... RIGHT ?

I have heard the CDC say that we might have 30 MILLION with the WUHAN... 10% of the population........ Heard Immunity working ??


Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Jun 2020 at 9:12pm
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 9:17pm
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 9:40pm
The most important thing to do, is to quarantine the sick, not the healthy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tad Wicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 11:05pm
The best thing that could happen to the U.S. would be to corral the turds, run them down the chute and inoculate them with some kind multiplying brain cells so they might have a clue as to reality
I love pigs they turn vegetables into bacon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Animal Cracker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 3:35am
Originally posted by Steve (MT) Steve (MT) wrote:

Just think about how nice it could be if we had a real President in times like this. Trump's base thinks the virus is still a hoax because the orange chosen one refuses to wear a mask.
Pretty sad????? Hell no, I would say it is sickening!
Sounds like your being raciest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 6:25am
“ The most important thing to do, is to quarantine the sick, not the healthy.”’

Not only the sick, but also asymptomatic carriers! Until we test more ad trace the ones who end up sick, we are spinning our wheels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 6:56am
Well first get a test that is accurate. Current tests do not isolate CV19 from other strains. Then comes the hard part
Getting those infected to STAY HOME! Case in point. I spoke to coworker yesterday that indicated his son likely had it before the mass hysteria. "Felt better" so he went to Florida for spring break. Came home still not feeling well. Has all classic symptoms of this virus. Self quarantine in basement but guess what? Dad co.es to work everyday anyway cuz " were too busy to take time off for this" I called him out on it but was dismissed. Until people that are ill stay home, this will never stop. And I mean any illness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 6:57am
Moron, have you NOT Kept Up? The "Asymptomatic cases" are likely 'Generic Coronavirus' NOT necessarily Covid 19 and is being USED to SCARE the crap out of people as you. Is being utilized to HYPE the Numbers.

Edited by DMiller - 30 Jun 2020 at 6:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:00am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?
May 15, 2020

Former neurosurgeon says masks are ineffective against COVID-19 and can cause health problems

'One should not attack and insult those who have chosen not to wear a mask'

A former neurosurgeon wrote an op-ed published Thursday warning that face masks are not only ineffective against the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, but they can be potentially dangerous in some circumstances.

Dr. Russell Blaylock wrote for Technocracy that people who aren't sick should not wear a face mask. The publication of his opinion piece comes as more businesses and locales make masks a requirement, such as in Los Angeles where residents are now required to wear a mask when they leave their homes.

Blaylock said that since there have not yet been any studies of the effectiveness of masks in slowing or preventing COVID-19 transmission, the best thing that can be done is to look at what impact masks have been proven to have against the flu. He cited a 2012 analysis on this point:

As for the scientific support for the use of face mask, a recent careful examination of the literature, in which 17 of the best studies were analyzed, concluded that, "None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection."

Blaylock noted that people wearing the most effective masks, N95 respirators, are at risk of negative effects of having their oxygen intake limited for extended periods of time.

It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Blaylock wrote that lower blood-oxygen levels can impair a person's immunity, potentially increasing their risk of contracting infections, including COVID-19. Also, a person who has a respiratory infection and wears a mask is expelling some of that virus with each breath and rebreathing it in, potentially leading to higher concentrations of the virus in the lungs and nasal passages, or even the brain — which that can make COVID-19 more dangerous.

"One should not attack and insult those who have chosen not to wear a mask, as these studies suggest that is the wise choice to make," Blaylock concluded.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend the use of cloth face coverings, not surgical masks or N95 respirators, for people in public settings where social distancing is difficult or impossible.

In February, U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams issued a public statement telling people to "STOP BUYING MASKS" because "They are NOT effective in preventing the general public from catching coronavirus."

Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching… https://t.co/6oEg8qlu5E
— U.S. Surgeon General (@U.S. Surgeon General)1582978123.0
In March, Adams stood by the stance that healthy people should not wear masks, saying they cause people to touch their faces more and provide a false sense of security.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ford8nwd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:03am
Trump likes to think of himself as a wartime president, but he is acting like no-such thing. A wartime president, like FDR in WW11 had the whole country behind the war effort. Trump has done just the opposite, letting it be known he was strictly for his base, and the rest of us could go scratch. A the first sign of the pandemic Trump should have made it a national mandate to wear masks and social distance, a proven plan. We still don't have  a mandate, in fact Trump discourages mask wearing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:04am
Won't settle in on the Brain Dead Libreturds Lonn, we are all beating that dead Libreturd Horse and it just will NOT listen. Over and Over and Over they bring this crap up and we retort with evidence, REAL Expert counter information and they just WILL Not see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:06am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?

Face Masks Aren’t Just Ineffective, They Might Actually INCREASE Your Risk Of Infection

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:09am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?

Public Health Experts Keep Changing Their Guidance on Whether or Not to Wear Face Masks for Coronavirus


March 4, 2020 9:00 AM EST

As the new coronavirus COVID-19 spreads in the U.S., people who are well want to stay that way. But since no vaccines are currently available, the strongest weapons Americans have are basic preventive measures like hand-washing and sanitizing surfaces, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

The simplicity of those recommendations is likely unsettling to people anxious to do more to protect themselves, so it’s no surprise that face masks are in short supply—despite the CDC specifically not recommending them for healthy people trying to protect against COVID-19. “It seems kind of intuitively obvious that if you put something—whether it’s a scarf or a mask—in front of your nose and mouth, that will filter out some of these viruses that are floating around out there,” says Dr. William Schaffner, professor of medicine in the division of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University. The only problem: that’s not likely to be effective against respiratory illnesses like the flu and COVID-19. If it were, “the CDC would have recommended it years ago,” he says. “It doesn’t, because it makes science-based recommendations.”

The science, according to the CDC, says that surgical masks won’t stop the wearer from inhaling small airborne particles, which can cause infection. Nor do these masks form a snug seal around the face. The CDC recommends surgical masks only for people who already show symptoms of coronavirus and must go outside, since wearing a mask can help prevent spreading the virus by protecting others nearby when you cough or sneeze. The agency also recommends these masks for caregivers of people infected with the virus.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:12am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?

Published

Surgeon general: Data doesn't back up wearing masks in public amid coronavirus pandemic

U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams said on “Fox & Friends” Tuesday that “the data doesn't show” that wearing masks in public will help people during the coronavirus pandemic.

Adams, a member of the Trump administration's Coronavirus Task Force, made the comment one day after President Trump said he sees a scenario where all Americans could be expected to wear masks in public "for a short period of time after we get back into gear."

Trump acknowledged on Monday that he did not yet discuss the idea with his task force and said it is "certainly something we could discuss."

“It's important to understand that we are looking at the data every single day and we make the best recommendations to the American people we can based on what we know,” Adams said on Tuesday.

“What the World Health Organization [WHO] and the CDC [The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] have reaffirmed in the last few days is that they do not recommend the general public wear masks.”

He then explained the reasons why.

“On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times,” Adams explained. “We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by touching a surface and then touching your face so wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease.”

Adams went on to say that wearing a face mask “can also give you a false sense of security." He added that "you see many of these pictures with people out and about closer than six feet to each other, but still wearing a mask.”

He noted that there are also consequences to wearing masks.

“We still have PPE [Personal protective equipment] shortages across the country,” Adams noted. “The WHO mentioned this in their statement so we want to make sure we are reserving PPE for the people who most need it. That's how you are going to get the largest effect because if healthcare workers get sick, they can't take care of you when you get sick.”

CORONAVIRUS: WHAT TO KNOW

Last month, Adams said Americans worried about the coronavirus outbreak shouldn’t buy face masks to protect themselves against it because the masks are ineffective for those without symptoms -- and the purchases deplete the supplies available for medical professionals.

“Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!” Adams wrote on Twitter, addressing fears over the spread of the virus in the U.S.

“They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”

On Tuesday Adams stressed that people who are sick should wear a mask.

He added, “If you have a mask and it makes you feel better, then by all means wear it, but know that the more you touch your face the more you put yourself at risk and know that right now the data isn't quite there to say that there is a net benefit to the individual of wearing a mask.”

Adams also said that N95 respirator masks aren’t as effective for the general public as one might think, saying N95 masks “have to get fit-tested.”

“As a medical professional, I can't just go out and wear an N95. I have to make sure it's properly fitted and I have the right size in order for it to work properly,” he explained.

“There may be a day when we change our recommendations particularly for areas that have large spread going on about wearing cotton masks, but again the data is not there yet,” he continued. “We are continuing to follow it.”

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

He added that the CDC is looking at it and “we’ll put out new recommendations if the guidance warrants.”



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:13am
This is a VIRUS people, it is NOT GOING AWAY, it is NOT VACCINATABLE For, It will NOT DIE OFF anytime soon as is carriable by any and all animals regardless if can affect them or not, it will survive in least likely places where YOU CANNOT CLEAN, hand sanitizer is NOT instantaneous where smears the crap around until it has decayed away, some times OVER HOURS. CA is seeing a massive rise, they blame the beach goers and mingling people at shops, so how did the Mobs not contract it, how did everyday shopping not contract it, or daily work? IT IS NOT JUST GOING AWAY, it will run and run and run again regardless all the shutdowns, all the spray washing all the masks or gloves or other haphazard BS the Political side throws out there as a saving grace. Burrowing into a hole in the ground for a year or more MIGHT MAYBE NOT NECESSARILY will save you if so stupid as to stop living and trying to escape life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/our-luck-may-have-run-out-californias-case-count-explodes/ar-BB167I8p?li=BBnb7Kz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ford8nwd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:15am
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?
May 15, 2020

Former neurosurgeon says masks are ineffective against COVID-19 and can cause health problems

'One should not attack and insult those who have chosen not to wear a mask'

A former neurosurgeon wrote an op-ed published Thursday warning that face masks are not only ineffective against the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, but they can be potentially dangerous in some circumstances.

Dr. Russell Blaylock wrote for Technocracy that people who aren't sick should not wear a face mask. The publication of his opinion piece comes as more businesses and locales make masks a requirement, such as in Los Angeles where residents are now required to wear a mask when they leave their homes.

Blaylock said that since there have not yet been any studies of the effectiveness of masks in slowing or preventing COVID-19 transmission, the best thing that can be done is to look at what impact masks have been proven to have against the flu. He cited a 2012 analysis on this point:

As for the scientific support for the use of face mask, a recent careful examination of the literature, in which 17 of the best studies were analyzed, concluded that, "None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection."

Blaylock noted that people wearing the most effective masks, N95 respirators, are at risk of negative effects of having their oxygen intake limited for extended periods of time.

It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Blaylock wrote that lower blood-oxygen levels can impair a person's immunity, potentially increasing their risk of contracting infections, including COVID-19. Also, a person who has a respiratory infection and wears a mask is expelling some of that virus with each breath and rebreathing it in, potentially leading to higher concentrations of the virus in the lungs and nasal passages, or even the brain — which that can make COVID-19 more dangerous.

"One should not attack and insult those who have chosen not to wear a mask, as these studies suggest that is the wise choice to make," Blaylock concluded.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend the use of cloth face coverings, not surgical masks or N95 respirators, for people in public settings where social distancing is difficult or impossible.

In February, U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams issued a public statement telling people to "STOP BUYING MASKS" because "They are NOT effective in preventing the general public from catching coronavirus."

Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching… https://t.co/6oEg8qlu5E
— U.S. Surgeon General (@U.S. Surgeon General)1582978123.0
In March, Adams stood by the stance that healthy people should not wear masks, saying they cause people to touch their faces more and provide a false sense of security.

That's old news, Lonn, current thinking as we have learned more is just the opposite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:16am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Most experts and scientists agree that two of the most, if not the most important things to do are social distancing and wearing masks. Just a couple days ago Pence attended a church service where neither were observed. Trump held a rally contrary to his own white house rules, where he poo-pooed masks and testing. This competent leadership?

Do face masks really reduce coronavirus spread? Experts have mixed answers.

By Stephanie Pappas
Two studies come to different conclusions.

For the first time, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has recommended that even seemingly healthy people wear masks over their mouths and noses when venturing out of their homes into places where it is difficult to maintain distance from other people. But there is still major debate over how much masks — particularly the homemade fabric masks that the CDC recommends for the public — can slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

Researchers, writing in two new papers, attempt to tackle the efficacy of masks, one more rigorously than the other, and come to differing conclusions. One study examined the effect of masks on seasonal coronaviruses (which cause many cases of the common cold) and found that surgical masks are helpful at reducing how much virus a sick person spreads. The other looked particularly at SARS-CoV-2 and found no effect of either surgical or fabric masks on reducing virus spread, but only had four participants and used a crude measure of viral spread.

The bottom line, experts say, is that masks might help keep people with COVID-19 from unknowingly passing along the virus. But the evidence for the efficacy of surgical or homemade masks is limited, and masks aren't the most important protection against the coronavirus.

"Putting a face mask on does not mean that you stop the other practices," said May Chu, a clinical professor in epidemiology at the Colorado School of Public Health on the Anschutz Medical Campus who was not involved in either new study. "It does not mean you get closer to people, it does not mean you don't have to wash your hands as often and you can touch your face. All of that still is in place, this is just an add-on."

Face mask basics

Recommendations about masks can easily get confusing, because all masks are not made equal. The N95 mask effectively prevents viral spread. These masks, when properly fitted, seal closely to the face and filter out 95% of particles 0.3 microns or larger. But N95 masks are in serious shortage even for medical professionals, who are exposed to the highest levels of SARS-CoV-2 and are most in need of the strongest protection against the virus. They're also difficult to fit correctly. For those reasons, the CDC does not recommend them for general use.

Due to shortages, the CDC also does not recommend surgical masks for the general public. These masks don't seal against the face but do include non-woven polypropylene layers that are moisture resistant. In a surgical mask, about 70% of the outside air moves through the mask and about 30% travels around the sides, Chu told Live Science. For that reason, they don't offer as much protection as N95s.

That leaves fabric masks, which currently are recommended for general use by the CDC. Fabric masks also allow air in around the sides, but lack non-woven, moisture-repelling layers. They impede only about 2% of airflow in, Chu said.

All of this leakage in surgical and fabric masks are why public health officials generally don't believe that wearing a mask prevents anyone from catching a virus that is already floating around in the environment. Airflow follows the path of least resistance, said Rachael Jones, an associate professor of family and preventive medicine at the University of Utah who was not involved in the new research. If viral particles are nearby, they have an easy path around a surgical or fabric mask. And in the case of a fabric mask, wearers may well be wafting in particles small enough to flow right through the fabric.

But what about the other way around? When the wearer of a mask coughs or sneezes, the barrier might be enough to contain a lot of that initial jet of grossness — even if there are gaps in the fabric or around the sides. That's what the new mask studies aimed to address: Whether surgical or fabric masks did a good job of containing viruses.

Efficacy of face masks

One study, published April 6 in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine, found that they did not. That study, led by South Korean researchers, involved asking four patients with COVID-19 to cough into a petri dish 7.8 inches (20 centimeters) away. The patients coughed without masks, while wearing a disposable surgical mask and again wearing a 100% cotton mask.

Neither mask meaningfully decreased the viral load coughed onto the petri dishes. But experts not involved in the study who were contacted by Live Science were hesitant to put much stock into the findings. The researchers didn't look at distances beyond 7.8 inches to see if droplets didn't travel as far while people were wearing masks, Chu said.

"They didn't measure 2 feet or 3 feet or 4 feet," she said.

The study also returned the odd result that most swabs from the outside of patient masks were positive for coronavirus and most from the inside were negative. The authors speculate that perhaps turbulent jets of air from coughing carried the virus toward the outside of the mask, but the explanation wasn't very satisfying, according to Jones.

The other study, published April 3 in the journal Nature Medicine, used a more sophisticated method of collecting the virus particles that sick people emit. The researchers asked 426 volunteers to breathe for 30 minutes into a cone-like device that captures everything exhaled. Of these, 43 patients had influenza, 54 patients had rhinoviruses and 17 patients had seasonal coronaviruses (the kinds that cause colds, not the kind that causes COVID-19). This method allowed the researchers to quantify how much virus was found in droplet particles, which are greater than 0.0002 inches (5 microns) in diameter, versus aerosol particles, which are 5 microns or smaller. The participants were randomized to either wear a surgical mask or not wear a mask during the study.

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The first key finding was that the researchers detected virus in tiny aerosol particles in all cases: influenza, rhinoviruses and coronaviruses. In the case of influenza, they cultured the captured particles and discovered that they were infectious. That's important, said study author Ben Cowling, head of the Division of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at The Hong Kong University, because there is a long-running debate among health professionals about whether influenza can spread via aerosols. The study suggests that it likely can, and that colds probably can too.

"For seasonal coronavirus and rhinovirus, we didn't attempt to culture the virus in the aerosols, but there is no reason to believe that the virus would not be infectious," Cowling told Live Science.

And as for masks? Surgical masks reduced the amount of virus released from a sick person in the form of droplets but not aerosols for influenza; the masks reduced coronavirus in both droplets and aerosols; and they didn't reduce either in rhinovirus. For the seasonal coronavirus, researchers found the virus in droplets in 3 out of 10 samples from participants not wearing masks and in aerosols in 4 out of 10 samples taken without masks. In samples taken with masks, no virus was detected in either droplets or aerosols.

The difference between viruses could have something to do with where in the respiratory tract these infectious invaders make their homes, said Cowling, who is also co-director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Infectious Disease Epidemiology and Control. For example, a virus that reproduces deep in the lungs might need to travel in smaller particles to make it all the way out into the world, while one that reproduces mostly in the nose and throat may be more easily mobilized in bigger droplets.

The results from influenza and seasonal coronaviruses suggest that surgical masks can help keep people with COVID-19 from spreading the virus, Cowling said. SARS-CoV-2 probably behaves similarly to the viruses he and his team studied, he said, and the fact that people can spread the virus before they experience symptoms is an argument for recommending masks for everyone.

But experts are still mixed on the potential usefulness of non-N95 masks.

"To me, it's not harmful to wear these masks, but it doesn't look from this study like there is a whole lot of benefit," Jones said. The sample size for seasonal coronavirus was small, she said, and there was a large amount of non-mask-related variation in how much virus people emitted, particularly given that the majority of samples without masks didn't have detectable coronavirus.

One thing everyone does agree on is that, whatever containment provided by non-fitted masks do provide, homemade fabric masks are the least effective. The recommendations that everyone wear masks are because "any kind of impediment is better than nothing," Chu said. But fabric masks are not expected to be as protective as surgical masks, she said. That's why public health officials are warning people to remain at least 6 feet apart from one another, even if they are wearing masks. In other words, homemade masks are likely to be just a small piece of the puzzle for controlling the COVID-19 pandemic.

"There's been enough research done to be able to confidently say that masks wouldn't be able to stop the spread of infection, that they would only have a small effect on transmission," Cowling said. "We shouldn't be relying on masks to help us go back to normal."



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2020 at 7:20am
Originally posted by ford8nwd ford8nwd wrote:

Trump likes to think of himself as a wartime president, but he is acting like no-such thing. A wartime president, like FDR in WW11 had the whole country behind the war effort. Trump has done just the opposite, letting it be known he was strictly for his base, and the rest of us could go scratch. A the first sign of the pandemic Trump should have made it a national mandate to wear masks and social distance, a proven plan. We still don't have  a mandate, in fact Trump discourages mask wearing.


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