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Freewheeling 
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Joined: 05 Nov 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 152
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 Topic: IB clutch problem finally solved
Posted: 05 Nov 2024 at 2:16am |
Laying under the tractor trying to figure out why the clutch won't disengage and I noticed oil on the bottom of the trans. Nothing unusual but it got me to thinking that maybe I was looking at the wrong end. Removed the filler plug and couldn't detect any oil. I removed all 3 plugs and drained maybe 3 quarts of oil. Filled it with 8 qts of SAE 20 non-detergent. Problem solved. Disengages in seconds. Can't believe I split it 3 times unecessarily.
I guess after sitting for 35 years with only the rare trip down the driveway, it leaked down and I never checked it. I can handly wait to see where and how much it leaks.
I'm now going to replace the oil pan gasket and discovered that the rear two bolts are tucked back in the bell housing/torque tube. Hard enough to get them out so I can't imagine how hard it is to get them started. Any slick tricks?
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mdm1
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Onalaska, WI
Points: 2637
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Posted: 05 Nov 2024 at 3:09am |
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Can you use a swivel socket? I used 1/4 in drive one on another engine.
Edited by mdm1 - 05 Nov 2024 at 3:11am
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
Points: 4739
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Posted: 05 Nov 2024 at 6:38am |
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I have small hands and don't have any problem getting those rear bolt out or back in. Even as they cramp up sometime now that I'm knocking or 70s door.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 81222
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Posted: 05 Nov 2024 at 8:02am |
Frank... the transmission oil level was causing the CLUTCH to drag ?? I never would have guessed that one !!
I guess the HIGH OIL level would cause a DRAG on the gears and shaft which would make some difference...
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Nov 2024 at 8:03am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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wjohn
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
Points: 1992
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Posted: 05 Nov 2024 at 7:26pm |
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If I understand correctly, with no oil up high enough to reach the gears and slow them down quickly once the clutch was disengaged, they just kept spinning/coasting down for a long time?
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
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Posted: 07 Nov 2024 at 10:47am |
Wait a minute.... What does oil in the trans have to do with the clutch not disengaging? The clutch pedal and adjusting rod engage and disengage the clutch by means of the pressure plate. That doesn't make sense to me......  Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Freewheeling
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 07 Nov 2024 at 11:38am |
That's what I thought. However, I was certain the problem was not the clutch so I gave it a shot. The only thing I could think of is that there was a drag on the input shaft and gears from the lack of lubricant. Bottom line is that I can engage the shifter without grinding or waiting for a minute or so.
Now I've taken the oil pan off to replace the gasket and have found a whole new can of worms. Whoever worked on this poor old Allis should burn in hell!
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Freewheeling
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Posted: 07 Nov 2024 at 11:42am |
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That's what it appears was happening. Now it shifts but I'm concerned about how long it was low on oil and if this isn't the first time. I did replace the PTO shaft seal decades ago so I should have checked the oil at that time but can't swear to it. Fortunate I didn't drive it much over the years.
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Freewheeling
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Posted: 07 Nov 2024 at 11:45am |
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It's weird for sure. I saw a video of a guy putting 80-90 gear lube in his B tranny. I would think that would cause a drag.
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Lynn Marshall
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Dana, Iowa
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Posted: 07 Nov 2024 at 1:08pm |
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If there was a drag in the transmission, it should have been even easier to release the clutch and shift gears. Almost like a transmission brake.
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wjohn
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Location: KS
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Posted: 07 Nov 2024 at 6:32pm |
I think the drag you get is WITH the gears churning through the oil (at the proper level), which would slow the shaft down more quickly.
If there was no oil, or just a slight film on the bearings, I could see it free spinning down for quite a while. No oil for the gears to churn through.
This is the only thing that makes sense to me. I'm not planning on trying it any time soon though, ha!
I doubt you seriously hurt anything if you didn't run it for hours, and not under too much load.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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ekjdm14
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Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: 08 Nov 2024 at 6:33am |
 Freewheeling wrote:
Now I've taken the oil pan off to replace the gasket and have found a whole new can of worms. Whoever worked on this poor old Allis should burn in hell! |
uh oh, what mischief was lurking in there?
Sounds to me the bearings were pretty dry if they were spinning down for long enough for you to think the clutch was dragging, the way they make fidget spinners spin longer is to wash all the lube out of the bearing & run it dry! No water though so hopefully that & the minimal use has saved the trans.
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Freewheeling
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Posted: 08 Nov 2024 at 8:20am |
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You're right. Guess my head was still stuck on the clutch end. Duh.
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Freewheeling
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Posted: 08 Nov 2024 at 9:18am |
There were oil leaks that appeared to be from the pan gasket, especially in the front. The mischief is that there is a mismatch of the crankshaft
seal cover and the engine block with the cover being
.016” lower than the block on the right side. The cork gasket had been cut off at the corners and removed on the rear of the
pan and RTV or something similar applied in it's place which didn't adhere very well. In the front, the right side of the
timing gear cover is .025” higher than the block. I’m thinking this may be the source of the worst oil leak since there was gasket only (no RTV).
The gasket I got from Steiner (ACS 293)
is 1/16" ( .0625) thick. I
don’t know if the gasket can seal properly. I've never used RTV for gaskets before just gasket material with some Permatex form-a-gasket on questionable surfaces. I have stacked gaskets as a quick fix on non-critical applications but I don't think it's a good idea here. I also don't like the idea of mixing standard gaskets and RTV. I So what do you think guys, standard gasket or RTV?
Obviously this engine was rebuilt at some time in it's 70+ years. Is this mismatch normal on these old motors or sloppy worksmanship? I'm also wondering why the idot who did this had the pan off. The engine runs fine, good oil pressure, no bad noises, and doesn't smoke.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 08 Nov 2024 at 11:41am |
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Thick cork gasket and Permatex Aviation #2 gasket sealer
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ekjdm14
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Posted: 08 Nov 2024 at 1:30pm |
Ouch, why on earth would they remove a big section of the gasket! The mind boggles.
As for the mismatch, I couldn't say for sure but I do feel like that's a lot to expect the gasket to take up.
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