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I think we are in for a very bumpy ride

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Lonn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 11:41am
I'm gonna wait for Jay to clear this up. Weez confused.Confused
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Tbone95 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 11:45am
JC, I'm not manipulating for any reaction, I am legit confused.
 
On one hand, he did say "Sadly".
 
ON the other hand, the original post seems to somewhat justify abortion based on the gal would just go to another state that permitted it, along with a state that abolished abortions he would assume would abolish all other forms of birth control.  In other words, simply calling abortion birth control.  "Justify" isn't the best word to use here, but I don't know what to say....
 
I give Jay the benefit of the doubt, I hope he clears it up a little.  I am confused. 


Edited by Tbone95 - 11 Jul 2018 at 11:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 11:46am
JC is correct, I'm NOT for abortions..however I do have a problem where some SOB RAPES a girl and a baby may be the result. In this ONE case, I'm leaning to the side that would give the girl the right to abort. It seems to me she certainly didn't want to conceive and the SOB has NO morals, so he ain't 'father' material. For sure the child would not have an easy life(old man was a rapist, mother got raped), that'd be a real tough row to hoe.
Not being a religous scholar, I have no idea where churches stand on this ONE case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 11:50am
Jay, the pregnant by rape question is absolutely heart breaking/ heart wrenching to me.  I respect your opinion on that.  Some will say the baby shouldn't be punished for the actions of a SOB rapist.....I respect that view too.  That one sucks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 12:01pm
Yea, find the genuine rapist and let him feel one of these...

 an I bet he won't have such an urge to do that again...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

JC is correct, I'm NOT for abortions..however I do have a problem where some SOB RAPES a girl and a baby may be the result. In this ONE case, I'm leaning to the side that would give the girl the right to abort. It seems to me she certainly didn't want to conceive and the SOB has NO morals, so he ain't 'father' material. For sure the child would not have an easy life(old man was a rapist, mother got raped), that'd be a real tough row to hoe.
Not being a religous scholar, I have no idea where churches stand on this ONE case.
My view and I know the view of my church is that a life is a life no matter how that life came about. Leave the church out and my answer is the exact same along with a little of JC's solution for the SOB...... but I'd rather use a rusty tin can lid.


Edited by Lonn - 11 Jul 2018 at 1:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 1:58pm
I find it hard to believe, religious scholar or not, that anyone would have no idea where a church would stand in that ONE case. 
 
Lonn, I totally respect that view.  Question though: how long have you been in your church?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dipstick In Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by JC(WI) JC(WI) wrote:

Now I'm some con-foozed Confused... too.
 Jay says, "Sadly abortion as a form of birth control is done daily  and has been done for hundreds of years."  It appears to me he is sad  that abortions are done daily as a form of birth control... and that he doesn't like it happening
 Wait... are you guys just trying to get a re-action from Jay? 
"it'd be interesting to see if MEN were the ones who got pregant, what would the laws be...." Just seen a clip where they were showing emojis of bearded men pregnant... Whats this whacked out world coming too???Wacko

A fulfillment of Scriptural Predictions........ 

What else do I need say???????????
You don't really have to be smart if you know who is!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 5:46pm
Less that half of a percent of all abortions in the US are due to rape.  I am in favor of letting the woman choose to keep such a child, or not...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dipstick In Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 11:29pm
I have always had the impression that the correct religious answer was that no one can predict how that child conceived in shame will affect humanity,,,,,,,,,,, and therefore deserves a chance at life,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
However,,,,,,, at the same time I don't think an abortion was considered in the same light as a conventional pregnancy.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 6:13am
Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Question though: how long have you been in your church?
I don't know why that matters but I've been attending about 10 years or so. I have held that belief long before I ever came to that church. My old ELCA member church lost their minds and we left. They believe in abortions, gay pastors, gay marriage, and that you do not need Jesus to be saved. I just didn't realize it until we had our first woman pastor. She made it her mission to push all those things which woke us up to what the ELCA had been pushing ever since it was formed. But I would like to know why you asked that particular question?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 6:52am
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

Question though: how long have you been in your church?
I don't know why that matters but I've been attending about 10 years or so. I have held that belief long before I ever came to that church. My old ELCA member church lost their minds and we left. They believe in abortions, gay pastors, gay marriage, and that you do not need Jesus to be saved. I just didn't realize it until we had our first woman pastor. She made it her mission to push all those things which woke us up to what the ELCA had been pushing ever since it was formed. But I would like to know why you asked that particular question?
Well, my question probably wasn't the best question.  A better question "might" have been, how much of you life has been....um......Christian influenced?
 
It doesn't matter in the sense that ol' Tbone is looking for a sneak attack on Lonn or I think you aren't resolved on the issue.  What I meant was, I think it is difficult to separate ourselves from a Christian view on the topic, or play what-if in our minds as if we weren't influenced by Christianity/Church.  For me personally, it wouldn't be any current religious involvement that shapes my view, rather my upbringing and life long influences.  Make sense, or no?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 7:32am
I've told this story before Tbone. When I was a teenager and being influenced by a few liberal teachers in school,......... well here is the story, we had an single egg incubator my younger brother had gotten by mail order. I had put a chicken egg in and was putting a drop of water on the egg and turning the egg over every morning and night. Maybe two weeks went by and I had come home from school and found Mom had thrown the egg into the field as the incubator somehow was unplugged all day. I went and found the egg and cracked it open to see how far the chick had developed. It was still alive but underdeveloped. I watch for..... I don't know...... several minutes or maybe a half hour as that chick struggled to live but then dying in the end. That is when I started thinking about aborted babies. It took some years of reflecting back to that day with that baby chick before I had solidified my thoughts against abortion. By my mid 20's I was very against abortion. Thinking on how a baby must react to being literally torn apart.

Though I at first thought it was me who had changed my mind because I had witnessed that dying chick, I know today and for the past 15 years, give or take, that it was God's doing all along. I realize that God had done that for me. To make me see he put that chick in that situation in front of me. So you can take that how you wish..... either I changed me or (as I believe) God did.

To those pro abortion people, look up "live abortion video" and you tell me what you see.


Edited by Lonn - 13 Jul 2018 at 7:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 7:34am
And I try my best to never again separate myself from Jesus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 8:29am
I don't believe I've read that story before, it's a good one!  I think your interpretation is correct. 
 
If we don't try to mince words, I think you'll see what I was trying to say.  If we take you as exactly Lonn and me as exactly Tbone out of it......replace where I said "Christianity" with maybe God out of it.....I wasn't being critical of you or the reasons you believe what you do about abortion.
 
My original question was more rhetorical in nature.  If we go back to Lou's post where he said he can defend right to life with leaving religion out of it, then compare it to what you said, where you said "My view and the view of the church...." , in other words, thinking about the various facets of this conversation, I think it's difficult for there to be any separation.  When you said you don't separate from Jesus, you are proving the point of what I'm saying.  In a good way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 8:40am
My stance goes back to about age 21-22 somewhere.  I would say honestly hadn't given it much serious thought by that time in my life.  Then I was confronted with a man actually thinking about it.  We had been ice fishing and drinking alcohol all day.  He had a serious girlfriend, they broke up for a while, then were going to get back together.  She was pretty sure she was pregnant, and pretty sure it was after they split up, so it was another guy.  They were considering aborting so they would have a clean slate.  My eyes welled up with tears and I said, "Don't kill the kid!"  If you want to be together, be together.  If you are meant to be, it will last.  The kid is innocent in this!  If you can't handle it, a child with a  different father, in your life, then don't be with the woman.  But don't kill a kid to give yourself a chance!
 
So as a drunk 21 year old, I had the sense to know it was wrong, haha. 
 
All my life, I have hated the killing of things.  Even when it's necessary, there's always that pause/feeling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 8:53am
I know what you mean. I've had to shoot dogs over time and have finally come to the conclusion that I can't shoot another sick dog. It's going to have to be someone else to do it. Now if I struggle with killing a sick dog I can't see how it can be so easy for another human being to kill an unborn baby no matter how that baby was conceived.


Edited by Lonn - 13 Jul 2018 at 8:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 9:42am
Known a few young women raped that aborted, know of one ex-girlfriend did not want another child so aborted mine, we parted ways. I have no issue with a rape victim deciding to eliminate a crime caused pregnancy, they do have the day after pill for stopping those. I do have issue if the mother knows the father and they both cannot reach the same decision that she opts for the abortion as is the easy way out.

Yet it is and remains the woman's choice to myself, she must carry the child and if not wanted is not better off carried to term.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 10:16am
Not all religions support the morning after pill.  I know for a fact the Catholic church does not.  Then there's the period of efficacy, and the woman being able to cope with and deal with it in time, that whole side of things.  Very messy.  I really really ache for a woman going through that.  Heart breaking and heart wrenching like I said before.  Rape caused pregnancy, a child aborted, the woman having to carry the child of the animal that raped her 9 months, what a wonderful reminder.  Absolutely terrible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 10:18am
Morning after pill is just the earliest possible abortion in some views.  Only a fertilized egg attaches to the uterus, and it prevents that.  A fertilized egg is a growing human.  Not necessarily my view of things in a nutshell, but that's the logic behind the Catholic church-like view of the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 11:16am
Catholic church also viewed the Pill as a issue back in the day, they have since backed off that as well divorce is no longer the big taboo it once was. So many items of note the left uses to describe the Catholic Church and their admonition of Birth Control or Abortion which in many cases does no longer exist. It comes down to personal beliefs as such, all too many want the mother to Have to carry to term even if is an unwanted to press the Celibacy consideration which also will Not happen.

No birth control is ever 100% perfect, no absolute reason will be found for or against abortions, just need to set some ground rules and play as close as one can to both sides of the argument, a compromise as Neither side will ever convince the other to an absolute determination in either direction. Saying that there will always be those that stick vehemently to their guns and demand the absolute that cannot be met, they will just have to argue and deal with life in opposing viewpoints.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 11:48am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Catholic church also viewed the Pill as a issue back in the day, they have since backed off that as well divorce is no longer the big taboo it once was. So many items of note the left uses to describe the Catholic Church and their admonition of Birth Control or Abortion which in many cases does no longer exist. It comes down to personal beliefs as such, all too many want the mother to Have to carry to term even if is an unwanted to press the Celibacy consideration which also will Not happen.

No birth control is ever 100% perfect, no absolute reason will be found for or against abortions, just need to set some ground rules and play as close as one can to both sides of the argument, a compromise as Neither side will ever convince the other to an absolute determination in either direction. Saying that there will always be those that stick vehemently to their guns and demand the absolute that cannot be met, they will just have to argue and deal with life in opposing viewpoints.
Just how long ago do you consider "back in the day"?  Because while you may be correct from the standpoint of how life is lived in certain regions, especially USA regions, the official position of the Catholic Church about the pill has not changed.  I would have to see a link to a Papal Decree or Cardinal summit or something to believe it.  Practicing yes, officially no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 11:56am
Quick google, last real official word on birth control was 1968.  Against birth control then, still are. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dennis IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 3:32pm
Good post Lou and unfortunately I believe you are very accurate in your observations both now and futuristic. I have been thinking along those lines myself. I just have to keep reminding myself that the Liberal left misfit brigade can kick, scream, cry etc until the cows come home but if our Heavenly Father sees his children pleading for an end of the slaughtering of babies etc he'll see to it that it happens. As it is written he laughs at those who would dare come against his own. 
HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE GOD CAN STAND BEFORE ANY MAN
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