This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


I removed D19 Hyd pump

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
captaindana View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
Points: 2494
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: I removed D19 Hyd pump
    Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 3:33pm
and found 2 of the 4 cam followers were destroyed. Here is a pic of the cam which works the pump. I believe it needs replacing! Whats your opinions? Thanks, Dana


Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Dave in PA View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Mars/Wexford PA
Points: 2627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave in PA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 3:44pm
I not thinking so!  I dont see any "shavings/parts" in the bottom of the pan! LOL
Might and I think, need some help there!
Dave in PA
Back to Top
Skyhighballoon(MO) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Pilot Grove, MO
Points: 3115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyhighballoon(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 4:44pm
What did the pump side look like for those 2 middle lobes?  Mike
1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex
1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330
1969 180 gas
1965 D17 S-IV gas
1963 D17 S-III gas
1956 WD45 gas NF PS
1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin
303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers
Back to Top
captaindana View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
Points: 2494
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 5:07pm
It's wierd, the front 2 cam followers were destroyed and lying in pieces and the rear 2 are like new. I believe one of the front 2 came apart and took another wirh it. I was hoping to rebuild the pump and reinstall but now what to do with this cam above? What is it called?
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21057
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 6:33pm
Time to engineer a front pump driven off of the crankshaft.
Back to Top
captaindana View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
Points: 2494
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 6:59pm
Does anyone have 2 or 3 complete cam followers they'd sell?
Back to Top
TedBuiskerN.IL. View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Davis, IL.
Points: 1959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedBuiskerN.IL. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 7:38pm
The cam followers in my D14 were exactly the same as the WD/WD45.
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
Back to Top
DREAM View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: Elberton,GA
Points: 1828
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DREAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 8:23pm
Oh,it'll be fine. Little J.B Weld, little sandpaper,.....
 
Actually, i'm more inclined to agree with Doc., unless you just have to have it bone-stock.
I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
Back to Top
Nathan (SD) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Day County SD
Points: 1267
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan (SD) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 8:56pm
Had this happen to my WD. I put a pump on the front of the crankshaft instead. I think that took less effort than tearing the tractor apart to change the shaft. Now I have full live hydraulics on top of it all.
Back to Top
Orange Blood View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Location: ColoradoSprings
Points: 4053
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 5:51am
I would abandone the idea of trying to replace the followers and putting the pump back in, it would only be a few hours of operation before the pump would look the same again.  Unless you replace the shaft, or possibly have it rebuilt and rehardened, you will not be happy.
 
Just my $0.02 worth
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
Back to Top
Chris/CT View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niantic, Ct
Points: 1939
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris/CT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 6:12am
What's so hard about splitting tractor and installing new shaft so it's done the right way?
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21057
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 6:20am
It's a double split and more work and special tooling than the average person can take on. Then when you get all done, it's still a 4 GPM pump and dead when you push the foot clutch in. A "live" front pump is a very viable solution.
Back to Top
jaybmiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 23722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 6:43am
What puzzles me is the yellow paint ! None of my fleet( d-14,G,Ca) ever had the inside painted ?
Is it from factory, or did a previous owner have problems ?
I'd like the last thing you'ld want is bits of paint flaking off andgetting into things that they shouldn't be !
 
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
Back to Top
Bob(FL) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Cape Coral, FL.
Points: 1321
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob(FL) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 7:13am
The paint on the inside is an oil resistant coating to stop rust, my d19 had it inside of all housings.  I had to replace the same shaft in mine, looked just like that one, at that time there were only 2 new shafts in stock, one was 300.00 and the other was 1100.00, you know which one I didn't buy.
Back to Top
ac-mike View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Kentucky
Points: 271
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac-mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 7:24am
Has anyone thought about installing a pump in the belt pulley location similar to the D-17 IV or 170/175 with a side pump. Also the H and HD-3's had a pump in that location. That would probably be the way I would consider first.
Back to Top
Lonn View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29792
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 8:30am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

What puzzles me is the yellow paint ! None of my fleet( d-14,G,Ca) ever had the inside painted ?
Is it from factory, or did a previous owner have problems ?
I'd like the last thing you'ld want is bits of paint flaking off andgetting into things that they shouldn't be !
 

Had the pump out years ago on my D19 and every D Series I've had apart were yellow inside to stop oil from seeping through the casting cause cast iron is porous. I never had a D14 apart but I seem to remember early D17 had a maroon color inside as do WDs. 190s are also yellow. Can't remember but I think the 7000 series were maroon inside. In four years working at the Allis dealer I only saw one 7000 series apart for PD seals and two apart for final drive work and I don't remember what color they were inside but I think they were maroon. If your D14 didn't have any paint inside it should have. Maybe it had work at one time and for some reason the casting was sand blasted or put in an acid tank.


Edited by Lonn - 18 Mar 2011 at 8:31am
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
I am a Russian Bot
Back to Top
BrettPhillips View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Strasburg, VA
Points: 808
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrettPhillips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 8:39am
Having replaced that shaft in my D14, I'm with the good doctor.  If you want to keep it original, I would recommend shopping for a good used torque tube assembly.  While you're replacing the torque tube, you might as well go through the Power Director and check out the engine clutch.  I ended up with over $1500 in my D14 torque tube rebuild, and that was with a used shaft and used PD parts.
Back to Top
skipwelte View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Location: Anthon, Iowa
Points: 723
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skipwelte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 10:58am
Oh man Dana, thats bad.  I though you would have a couple of cam followers bad, not the cam lobes!!!!  There is your slow hydralics, even with one cam follower bad youll notice low flow.   Puttin that shaft in is a lot of work.  you might be able to find a complete center section and replace yours.   In any case youll be lookin for used parts!!  Now we know!!     What caused the lobes to go bad is worn out cam followers,   they are rather spendy.     Those lobes are so bad that puttin in different followers is not going to help pump flow at all and the good followers wont last long.     You have 4 options.  1.  put the pump back in and run it, damage is done.  2.  replace the cam shaft and pump followers,  lot of work, will probably find more stuff worn.  3.  find a different center section and replace it, not as much work, will probably find more stuff worn  4.  send this one down the road, buy another one.  HTH   Good luck

Edited by skipwelte - 18 Mar 2011 at 11:06am
Back to Top
sandylakeimplement View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Sandy Lake, PA
Points: 399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandylakeimplement Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 12:27pm
We can fix you up with used cam followers or just the rollers new (we had them custom made, never were offered seperately from Allis). MIGHT have a shaft. Give us a shout if you decidde to go that way.   Bill
Sandy Lake Implement
Sandy Lake, PA
724-376-2489
www.sandylakeimp.com
FIND US ON FACEBOOK
Back to Top
CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 10:38pm
Maybe just use the 2 good followers you have on the good lobes and reassemble as long as nothing got in the bearings. Then start the hunt for a live front mount pump.
 ac-Mike, if you are going to go to the trouble of adding a different pump, it would make more sense to me to put it up front so it would be live independent. The series IV 17 and the 170-up had the internals altered to make the side pump independent which would not be the case on the 19. 
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
Back to Top
JC-WI View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 33925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 2:14am
CT, I think a series IV and 170 would fit right up in there. Seen a D19 that was fittedup with a 200 rear axels and 3point with live side pump and the old D19 engine . And it did work . 
Back to Top
captaindana View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
Points: 2494
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 11:36am
Thanks for the ideas guys. I figured out what happened. The first failure is the pin which holds the roller on the end of the cam follower assembly. The pins were put in the assembly and then 'punched' or maybe tack welded to hold them in. Well what happens is the pin works loose and falls out...the crimp or tack weld fails first, then pin falls out leaving the follower assembly to grind away on the lobes. I was rebuilding the pomp and the roller pin simply fell out of the cam follower body [on a good follower unit] while it was sitting in the vice on its side. I would never put one back together without hitting each follower with a tack to keep the pin in!!
Back to Top
captaindana View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Fort Plain, NY
Points: 2494
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captaindana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 11:41am
BTW CT do you think the pump would really still pump at half rate with 2 cam assemblies not hooked up? I hadn't thought of that...I assumed they all had to work together?
Back to Top
CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 12:50pm
Did it work at all before you took it apart?  I'm not familiar with the 19 but I think the 45 has 3 plungers to make volume and one for high pressure. It would be slower than normal at least.
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum