![]() |
This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | |||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
I removed D19 Hyd pump |
Post Reply ![]() |
Author | |
captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2494 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 3:33pm |
and found 2 of the 4 cam followers were destroyed. Here is a pic of the cam which works the pump. I believe it needs replacing! Whats your opinions? Thanks, Dana
|
|
![]() |
|
Sponsored Links | |
![]() |
|
Dave in PA ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Mars/Wexford PA Points: 2627 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I not thinking so! I dont see any "shavings/parts" in the bottom of the pan! LOL
Might and I think, need some help there!
Dave in PA
|
|
![]() |
|
Skyhighballoon(MO) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Pilot Grove, MO Points: 3115 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
What did the pump side look like for those 2 middle lobes? Mike
|
|
1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex
1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
|
![]() |
|
captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2494 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
It's wierd, the front 2 cam followers were destroyed and lying in pieces and the rear 2 are like new. I believe one of the front 2 came apart and took another wirh it. I was hoping to rebuild the pump and reinstall but now what to do with this cam above? What is it called?
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21057 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Time to engineer a front pump driven off of the crankshaft.
|
|
![]() |
|
captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2494 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Does anyone have 2 or 3 complete cam followers they'd sell?
|
|
![]() |
|
TedBuiskerN.IL. ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Davis, IL. Points: 1959 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The cam followers in my D14 were exactly the same as the WD/WD45.
|
|
Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives.
|
|
![]() |
|
DREAM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Location: Elberton,GA Points: 1828 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Oh,it'll be fine. Little J.B Weld, little sandpaper,.....
Actually, i'm more inclined to agree with Doc., unless you just have to have it bone-stock.
|
|
I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
|
|
![]() |
|
Nathan (SD) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Day County SD Points: 1267 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Had this happen to my WD. I put a pump on the front of the crankshaft instead. I think that took less effort than tearing the tractor apart to change the shaft. Now I have full live hydraulics on top of it all.
|
|
![]() |
|
Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I would abandone the idea of trying to replace the followers and putting the pump back in, it would only be a few hours of operation before the pump would look the same again. Unless you replace the shaft, or possibly have it rebuilt and rehardened, you will not be happy.
Just my $0.02 worth
|
|
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
|
![]() |
|
Chris/CT ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Niantic, Ct Points: 1939 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
What's so hard about splitting tractor and installing new shaft so it's done the right way?
|
|
![]() |
|
DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21057 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
It's a double split and more work and special tooling than the average person can take on. Then when you get all done, it's still a 4 GPM pump and dead when you push the foot clutch in. A "live" front pump is a very viable solution.
|
|
![]() |
|
jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 23722 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
What puzzles me is the yellow paint ! None of my fleet( d-14,G,Ca) ever had the inside painted ?
Is it from factory, or did a previous owner have problems ?
I'd like the last thing you'ld want is bits of paint flaking off andgetting into things that they shouldn't be !
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
|
![]() |
|
Bob(FL) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL. Points: 1321 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The paint on the inside is an oil resistant coating to stop rust, my d19 had it inside of all housings. I had to replace the same shaft in mine, looked just like that one, at that time there were only 2 new shafts in stock, one was 300.00 and the other was 1100.00, you know which one I didn't buy.
|
|
![]() |
|
ac-mike ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Points: 271 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Has anyone thought about installing a pump in the belt pulley location similar to the D-17 IV or 170/175 with a side pump. Also the H and HD-3's had a pump in that location. That would probably be the way I would consider first.
|
|
![]() |
|
Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29792 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Had the pump out years ago on my D19 and every D Series I've had apart were yellow inside to stop oil from seeping through the casting cause cast iron is porous. I never had a D14 apart but I seem to remember early D17 had a maroon color inside as do WDs. 190s are also yellow. Can't remember but I think the 7000 series were maroon inside. In four years working at the Allis dealer I only saw one 7000 series apart for PD seals and two apart for final drive work and I don't remember what color they were inside but I think they were maroon. If your D14 didn't have any paint inside it should have. Maybe it had work at one time and for some reason the casting was sand blasted or put in an acid tank.
Edited by Lonn - 18 Mar 2011 at 8:31am |
|
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
|
![]() |
|
BrettPhillips ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Strasburg, VA Points: 808 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Having replaced that shaft in my D14, I'm with the good doctor. If you want to keep it original, I would recommend shopping for a good used torque tube assembly. While you're replacing the torque tube, you might as well go through the Power Director and check out the engine clutch. I ended up with over $1500 in my D14 torque tube rebuild, and that was with a used shaft and used PD parts.
|
|
![]() |
|
skipwelte ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Location: Anthon, Iowa Points: 723 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Oh man Dana, thats bad. I though you would have a couple of cam followers bad, not the cam lobes!!!! There is your slow hydralics, even with one cam follower bad youll notice low flow. Puttin that shaft in is a lot of work. you might be able to find a complete center section and replace yours. In any case youll be lookin for used parts!! Now we know!! What caused the lobes to go bad is worn out cam followers, they are rather spendy. Those lobes are so bad that puttin in different followers is not going to help pump flow at all and the good followers wont last long. You have 4 options. 1. put the pump back in and run it, damage is done. 2. replace the cam shaft and pump followers, lot of work, will probably find more stuff worn. 3. find a different center section and replace it, not as much work, will probably find more stuff worn 4. send this one down the road, buy another one. HTH Good luck
Edited by skipwelte - 18 Mar 2011 at 11:06am |
|
![]() |
|
sandylakeimplement ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Sandy Lake, PA Points: 399 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
We can fix you up with used cam followers or just the rollers new (we had them custom made, never were offered seperately from Allis). MIGHT have a shaft. Give us a shout if you decidde to go that way. Bill
|
|
Sandy Lake Implement
Sandy Lake, PA 724-376-2489 www.sandylakeimp.com FIND US ON FACEBOOK |
|
![]() |
|
CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22824 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Maybe just use the 2 good followers you have on the good lobes and reassemble as long as nothing got in the bearings. Then start the hunt for a live front mount pump.
ac-Mike, if you are going to go to the trouble of adding a different pump, it would make more sense to me to put it up front so it would be live independent. The series IV 17 and the 170-up had the internals altered to make the side pump independent which would not be the case on the 19. |
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
![]() |
|
JC-WI ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33925 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
CT, I think a series IV and 170 would fit right up in there. Seen a D19 that was fittedup with a 200 rear axels and 3point with live side pump and the old D19 engine . And it did work .
|
|
![]() |
|
captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2494 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Thanks for the ideas guys. I figured out what happened. The first failure is the pin which holds the roller on the end of the cam follower assembly. The pins were put in the assembly and then 'punched' or maybe tack welded to hold them in. Well what happens is the pin works loose and falls out...the crimp or tack weld fails first, then pin falls out leaving the follower assembly to grind away on the lobes. I was rebuilding the pomp and the roller pin simply fell out of the cam follower body [on a good follower unit] while it was sitting in the vice on its side. I would never put one back together without hitting each follower with a tack to keep the pin in!!
|
|
![]() |
|
captaindana ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fort Plain, NY Points: 2494 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
BTW CT do you think the pump would really still pump at half rate with 2 cam assemblies not hooked up? I hadn't thought of that...I assumed they all had to work together?
|
|
![]() |
|
CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22824 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Did it work at all before you took it apart? I'm not familiar with the 19 but I think the 45 has 3 plungers to make volume and one for high pressure. It would be slower than normal at least.
|
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
|
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |