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Byron WC in SW Wi 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
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 Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 8:45pm |
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jeffrey
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Location: Rising Sun, MD
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 8:45pm |
i think it is in everybodys best interest who visits here that AGCO does not go broke. Sorry for the guys who have newer AGCO equipment who feel they are getting a bad deal. But this is not the first time it has happened. Remember Deutz? What about when Ford bought New Holland or White bought Oliver and MM and Cockshutt. Or when Fiat bought New Holland and Case IH. Weather you run a D17 , DT220 , an oliver or MM, you need AGCO to get parts. I know some will say I don`t know what I am talking about. In 2001 I bought a new Gehl discbine. I had heard the dealer was closing and asked the salesman, he said they where not going to close. Guess what 30 days after I wrote the check the dealer was gone. No other dealer close (90 minute drive) And today Gehl does not even make hay equipment. But I got over it. OK go ahead and blast me and call me names.
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ScottinSWIL
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Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Location: Randolph Co. IL
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 8:48pm |
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Well it is still good to hear that they will stick with the R series Gleaner. I know some of the dealers have been crying for more improvements through the years and it sounds like Agco at least has the sense to move forward with those. After all ,the headers and a big part of the A series are gleaner original ideas. As far as tractors I guess I'd rather drive yellow before i would EVER consider a Massey even though they are the same now under the hood. Would be the laughing stock of the neighborhood to the JD and CNH diehards. I like orange but we also have New Holland and JD already. It will be Agco's loss in the end in the North American market. They are just kicking a bunch of good dealers in the sack by forcing them to sell Massey red. Just like IG others will stray. But how many very large farming operations do you see in a magazine with an Agco tractor in the background. All red and green. NO large 4-wheel drive to market through the years has killed alot of potential. Some large operators would probably think about Cat yellow because of name more than Agco orange. Alll these years and they just kept screwing up a marketing plan or lack of. It is sad but I will stick with a Gleaner as I just got a R75 this year and we really like it so far. Have had gleaners for over 30 yrs. Just as long as they don't put Massey stripes on it!
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Spud
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: North Dakota
Points: 601
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 9:09pm |
No IL Gleaner I don't know your situation as you are just a name on the internet. I was merely pointing out that they still build the tractor you thought was great last week, just in a different color now. I don't think that warrants telling me to shut my mouth. I guess it is easy to be rude on the internet.
Byron, we do have Agco equipment. 2 Deutz allis, 1 massey, and 1 New Idea round baler.
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ac45
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 9:20pm |
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I somewhat have to agree with Illinois Gleaner. There is not much agco stuff around here, nearest dealer is 45 miles, but those who buy it are diehard orange people. Agco has good products, but i dont feel that they are that superior to the red and green to drive another 50 miles for parts sales and service, especially when they quit making the brand someone likes. around here the only Masseys you see are under a 80 hp, and its been that way forever, no one around here is going to buy a challenger tractor either. This brand reduction all sounds good from text book managment and econmics, but these people have never even sold lemonade from a lemonade stand, so in real world marketing they suck. Only a farmer can tell how a farmer will think, you cant get 5 degrees in marketing and sell to a farmer if youve never been one or grew up with them. Why do you think deere is so successful??
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JC-WI
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 9:26pm |
If AGCO wants to leave the N A market and just market global tractors, why not just tell them to sell all Allis-Chalmers and all Gleaner patents and parts and copywrites to somebody that wants to keep the company in NA If there is nos ale for the stuff in this country, why would they care if you /a corporation were to start manufactoring them again.
yup, would take to much money to buy them rats out.
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Austin(WI)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 9:55pm |
well...there is still a couple years before this happens...maybe something will change.
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"Better By Design"
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ILGLEANER
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Willow Hill,ILL
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 10:05pm |
Spud speak for yourself about being rude. You stated that I would be making a bad mistake going with Deere or CNH,making them a monopoly. You said I still like the tractor if its red or yellow because its the same tractor. So you must know me and know my farm,and my thoughts. So when I state facts to you about the distance I drive to stay loyal to Orange tractors and Silver combines,and it would be stupid to go out of my way 50 miles to change to a different color tractor on my farm. I am going to get pissed real quick.You have no clue about my farm ,I drive tractors that are orange ,because I think they are as good as the rest,and I can still drive orange tractors. I dont care how good they are in yellow or red I AINT DRIVING THEM. I have a orange pickup,4wheeler,and anything else you can think of. I bleed it!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have supported AGCO since it started. I stuck with them. They said I am not worth there buisness, so I go else where. HOW does that make me in the wrong. There is not a doubt in my mind,if they were not going to quit making orange tractors there would be a new DT205B sitting in my shed this spring,but instead its going to be a New 8245R,the dealer is 5 miles away.How is that stupid ????? I have to change colors they made that choice for me.
Illinois -almost Deere Gleaner :)
Edited by ILGLEANER - 16 Nov 2009 at 10:09pm
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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Hurst
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Midway, Ky
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 10:16pm |
From what I have found, Massey is the top selling tractor brand in the world right now, and has been there for 35 years. What makes business sense for AGCO in a global economy is to not get caught up with just the needs of one of their markets, the North American sector, but the global needs. As far as Deutz-Allis tractors in South America, it is most likely due to the lower needs of those farms. They cannot afford the new AGCO tractors and don't need that high tech of a tractor, so AGCO continues to sell the older models there. They are renamed AGCO-Allis now from what I could find. I'm not saying I like seeing orange paint go, but at the same time, you the executives at AGCO are trying to keep a GLOBAL company alive. That means you will have to make some sacrifices in different markets. AGCO tractors may be outselling MF and Challenger 4-1 in NA, but what if NA is only 10% of their sales (I just made that figure up, I hope it is more). You can't assume most people are buying AGCO's just because of the orange paint. Most farmers bought them for the technology, innovation, and dealer support in their area. If they keep this dealer support, seeing how the MF tractors are the same exact tractor in different paint, many of these farmers probably won't really care about the slight change of color of their tractor. As far as people who just bought AGCO tractors, if they are identical to the MF tractors like I have read numerous times here, then I doubt replacement parts are going to be of any shortage in the near future. I hate to see orange go away as much as many of you, but I also can understand where AGCO is most likely coming from. We don't see but a small slice of the story as far as what is going on inside the company, so it's really hard for us to make the best decisions for the company. AGCO sees it fit during this economy to cut out the orange line of tractors in an attempt to save money, but that doesn't mean the AGCO line of tractors will never reappear. It's possible they may come back after the economy gets going, or weirder things may happen, like them selling off the Allis Chalmers portion of the company. Only time will tell there. Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours
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Oldoug
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 10:56pm |
I said it last week and I'll say it this week and probably the next, AGCO sucks, more importantly Martin Richenhagen sucks. This whole idea to phase out AGCO brand and promote such worthless brands as Challenger is his. I can't believe we can have AGCO buy out all these brands and now the name AGCO is what is gonna dissappear, shouldn't it work the other way or am I just understanding this wrong???? What Mr. CEO Martin Richenhagen's letter did on Thrusday can't be fixed either, even if they decide to bring back the orange tractor, it's over, nobody is gonna buy it cause they will remember that it can be taken right back with one letter to the dealers. Mr. CEO just killed alot of equipment sales of all AGCO brands. Everybody's belief in AGCO is shaken now, they don't know what is safe to buy, what brand is going to be around and the future is certainly uncertain. Nobody want's to support a brand that doesn't even support/promote itself. It just sucks. I don't like John Deere, but I have to give them credit, most of the stuff is made in the U.S.A., they promote themselves, their marketing is second to none, and they make their customers feel comfortable buying their equipment. I bet you'll will never here the CEO of John Deere come out and say "Do to a changing market we need to drop the name John Deere and effective 2010 we will be Deere Ag Corp. we will also be dropping the familar green paint used over the years in favor of a new color for this new begining. We appericiate our customers...blah, blah, blah. Felony acalcerosis bilinear copaline fornication pyrochemical reward elaborated splined inconsolable metamer degradation denumerant. Downshaft ricinelaidin cryoprotective unwomanly upwind clearway overreact responsibility dampness? vermox propranolol inoxidize triamcinolone hytrin
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Hurst
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 11:03pm |
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I agree with you, but a lot of this discussion, rightfully so, is based on the US market. They are actually keeping their big brand alive, Massey. As far as Cat, I feel like there's something going on behind the scenes we don't know about. If not, Cat at least ensures another market opportunity and dealer network to use. Cat owns Perkins now if I remember correctly, so... maybe that has something to do with it? I have to give Deere credit for their focus on the American market. AGCO has just shifted focus to a different sector. It's kind of hard to imagine as the company has bought out so many American companies, but a lot of their innovations have come through European companies, and those customers would be feeling the same way if one of their companies were cut out. I don't know what exactly they are looking for quantitatively by dropping AGCO, as it doesn't seem like AGCO can be much of a cost burden to them.
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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tominpa
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Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 11:08pm |
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 4:49am |
Spud - I appreciate what your trying to say but IMO IG is a great guy in my book. He may not like this comment but I've always thought he and I are a lot alike and would probably have a big wrestling match and then be best friends if we ever met. He speaks with his heart on his sleeve and he has been a huge supporter of AGCO since I've known him on here. But, he made it perfectly clear months back that if AGCO dropped orange they were betraying him. That's how I feel too. I should have paraphrased my comments on owning AGCO equipment to say only ORANGE AGCO equipment. Those are the ones whose value took a hit this week and who, in all likelihood, bought it primarily because it was orange. Hurst - I don't trust AGCO and I don't trust their numbers. I trust the dealers and guys in the field that say AGCO outsells the others 4 to 1. I don't like double standards and hypocrits. Their AGCO-Allis brand could be in the US to with orange paint. Their keeping that for Brazil!!!??? You could probably sell more tractors in Texas than Brazil if you went at it. So anyway. It does not make sense fiscally or in any other way cause I don't trust their numbers and their not doing it across the board just to AGCO tractors. BTW - I think it's because of Martin R and this article why he's doing it: http://thegatheringoftheorange.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-might-future-of-agco-look-like.html#comments
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Jack(Ky)
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 6:36am |
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It sounds just like the obama gang is running Agco. They want to see America go down the tube too.JP
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1770
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 7:07am |
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You guys are worst then the deere nuts, Needs to be green to be good. Have a neighbor bleed green. had a jd tractor just out of warranty, small 90hp model, put 8k in the rear end, Looking at massey next time, shock to hear that.
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BrettPhillips
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 7:56am |
TominPA: I believe that you are closer to the truth than you realize. Â It seems that China is seen as the rising superpower these days, and the rest of the world is preparing to kneel at their feet, including AGCO... Â Gentlemen, we have been sold out.
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bigallis1
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 7:58am |
 TedBuiskerN.IL. wrote:
If that was the case, they should revive the Allis Chalmers brand. At one time that was as global as you could get. There are still Allis Crawlers and older tractors in Europe from WWII. |
Good point Ted on the global thing. And it could still be done today with the Agco line.
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bigallis1
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 8:09am |
TomYaz wrote:
Tom,
I received your e-mail regarding the AGCO Brand. Decisions like these are not made easily and not without research with supporting facts. AGCO Brand has only been established in North America. Brands such as Massey Ferguson, Fendt, Challenger and Valtra are our global brands. In order to compete with major lines of products we find that we are unable to adequately promote multiple brands especially those, which are not global brands. Today’s economic environment makes it impossible for companies such as AGCO to grow these brands with diluted resources. From a sales volume position, the AGCO Brand was minimal in the big picture. However, we realize that there is an emotional side to this with the heritage going back to the Allis Chalmers product and dealer network. Again, these decisions are never easy but many times the correct decisions are not always those that are. We value our AGCO customers and will do what we can to retain as many of you as possible in the future.
Thank you for your response to AGCO Answers.
Stephen Barcuch
District Director - East Coast District
AGCO Corporation
>>>So what he is saying they only want to keep the brands with global recognition....
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I commend Mr. Barcuch for taking the time to respond to the e-mail. I would question how much research and supporting facts was really done. Again, it sounds like the Marketing folks got their way.
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Spud
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 9:08am |
Sorry you are so riled up ILGleaner. I know you are disappointed but I still don't think it warrants being rude and telling me to shut my mouth. I think it is possible to debate this without resorting to that.
If it makes sense to go to Deere, go nuts. I have no idea who is closest to you as you are just a name on the computer.
BTW, the Deere dealer wants Agco out of your county because of:
A: The feel betrayed by Agco like you or
B: They want to keep out competition.
My money is on B. Drop prices now and run the others out of business and then make it up later when there are no other options.
If going Deere works for your location and financial situation then that is what works for you. It is no skin off my butt.
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Anthony
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 9:08am |
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I just emailed AGCO and let them know how I feel
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Jim Lindemood
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 9:26am |
Way to go Tom Yaz, you got a response from AGCO. Interesting how everybody in the country knows John Deere regardless of where they live or what they do. That's marketing. They have accessable dealerships and (in my experience) have been quite responsive and cutomer oriented. ( and I don't own a JD tractor - yet, nor want one - yet.) Nobody outside the farm industry or collectors know that AGCO exists or what brands they have, or where a dealer is -- that is a lack of marketing. Cutting back on the line and dealers is not marketing, and likely will not build your share of the business.
If AGCO is going to be a player in NA with any brand, they are going to have to come out of the closet and do some serious marketing and building customer relations.
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Anthony
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 9:38am |
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Kip-Utah
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 11:29am |
Along w/ A-C I'm also a Mopar Man. It's been a tough few years! The irony is that it was the Germans (Diamler) that done in Chrysler, just like Duetz did in Allis-Chalmers. And in both cases it happened in pretty short order. There was a time when Chrysler had very distinct models from Imperial, Chrysler, Desoto, Dodge, and Plymouth. When higher optioned Dodges became available Desoto was dropped, eventually Plymouths became nothing more than rebadged Dodges, and now Plymouth is also gone. The real lesson to be learned is that the original brands started by Walter Chrysler and The Dodge Bros. are the ones that are left. Imperial,Desoto, & Plymouth were all made up brands that this many years later still never carried the brand loyalty of the originals! For many years Chryco also marketed a version of Dodge medium and light duty trucks for the Canadian and other export markets, called Fargos. But today Dodge branded pickups do just fine in Canada and other export markets. After all Dodge was the original, compared to the made up brand of Fargo. Chrysler could have said that we are going to drop Dodge Trucks in the North American market, because internationally we do very well with the Fargo brand! That would have been assinine. There is a lesson to be learned. Can you say Challenger?!!
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HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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DougG
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 12:55pm |
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Hey Jim good point on the marketing thing, I emailed them last night about that, prolly for nuthing ; but never hurts to try- I put in there nobody even knows what they do market and the dealers are so few between - how could you have a good showing in North America ; ???
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Embellem
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 1:20pm |
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In hindsight, you had to figure AGCO would start pruning. AGCO spent years buying up all kinds of brands of equipment, many of them with overlapping product lines and markets. Never made much sense to me. There was no way that they could keep all of those brands going. Either it was short-sighted on their part to think they could or their plan has always been to pick and choose the product lines and even brands they like and cut the others.
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AndrewGubbels
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 1:37pm |
I am very disapointed to hear how everyone is responding to this. As a service tech working with the product everyday I feel that the product being sold should not be as simple as if they do not make the color I want I will get something else. This is very disapointing. The faithfull customers will stick with whatever there dealer has to sell to them. Because a good dealer should offer good service and a good product. Customer satisfaction. I know alot of people are upset by some things taking place, I say buy new orange tractors just to show that they are selling. Not trade them off on green or other competators. This is just supporting why they are making this choice. I will try my best and have to help support our product if people are unhappy with it I am sorry we didnt do abetter job.
Andrew
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Andrew Gubbels
Gubbels Restoration
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BrettPhillips
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Strasburg, VA
Points: 808
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 2:06pm |
Andrew: As you skillfully pointed out, this is also about dealers. Â If existing AGCO dealers do not become MF dealers, then many AGCO owners will lose their source for parts and service at a reasonable distance. Â Here in the east, Cat dealers could care less about farm equipment and as a result Challenger dealers are rare birds. Â Limiting Challenger to Cat dealerships is really hurting the development of the yellow farm equipment market.
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ScottinSWIL
Silver Level
Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Location: Randolph Co. IL
Points: 118
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 2:33pm |
Andrew I guess one upsetting thing about it all is the fact that they come out with this great new looking series tractor and then announce its demise before it ever has a chance. It seems they are purposely timing this to justify there reasoning for discountinuing the orange paint. I'd would love one of the new "B" series tractors. Will probably like to trade the 8070 on one of the earler DT series shortly. As some others have said if we lose all local dealers , parts for the old orange will be a problem. I too have a JD dealer within 5 miles of the farm, but the Agco's have been alot of tractor compared to the cost of JDs. I just don't understand why if you are producing these in the same factory they can't just have certain days to fill North American orders with orange or whatever, just like they run the Massey and Gleaner combines on the same line in Hesston Ks. They probably wouldn't need a big marketing ploy in the US for the color orange anyway. One man calling the shots is not the will of the dealers out there that know what they can sell. Color isn't everything but they already pissed off the White customers and now the few orange that is left. I still will buy an orange if the right opportunity comes up here shortly. But thinking back, no wonder it has been so hard for dealers to get some new orange paint on the lot to sell. I think alot more of them could have been sold if they were just out there to sell (DT A series) Felony acalcerosis bilinear copaline fornication pyrochemical reward elaborated splined inconsolable metamer degradation denumerant. Downshaft ricinelaidin cryoprotective unwomanly upwind clearway overreact responsibility dampness? vermox propranolol inoxidize triamcinolone hytrin
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ILGLEANER
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Willow Hill,ILL
Points: 6448
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 2:40pm |
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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Byron WC in SW Wi
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1635
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Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 3:53pm |
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