| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
180Puller 
Silver Level Access
Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Points: 226
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: How Do D-17 And D-19 Diesel Engines Differ?
Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 4:55pm |
Besides the turbo and exhaust manifold what are the differences between the D-17 and D-19 diesel engines??Are the D-19 injector tips bigger? If you had a D-19 diesel with a bad engine could you slip a good D-17 diesel in and use the turbo setup from the D-19? I assume that the 262 diesel and gas cranks are the same and also the blocks? I recently bought a rough D-19 diesel and I'm looking at options..
I'll show the rest of the tractor when I get it home..
Edited by 180Puller - 13 Jan 2018 at 5:06pm
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
JC-WI
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 33823
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 6:48pm |
|
No, I would not put the turbo on the D17 engine. The 19 had a lower compression ratio than the D17 and the 19's still had gasket /head troubles and then had updates on them and still weren't that super great.
Would be better to just slip in a 262 gas motor...
Or find the 265 cu 180/185/190 gas or 2800 diesel motor, frame rails, front end and marry that on and have live hydraulics...
Or put a 4BT Cummins in.
|
|
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2484
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 7:05pm |
|
late d17 diesel and d19 gas and diesel use the same block and crank
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
Calvin Schmidt
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
Points: 4525
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 7:15am |
|
Further to what Don said. The 262 gas and LP blocks, cranks, and sleeves are the same as the diesels. A few years ago we found a good gas block, crank , and used it to rebuild a late D-17 diesel engine.
|
|
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
|
|
180Puller
Silver Level Access
Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Points: 226
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 8:07am |
 JC(WI) wrote:
No, I would not put the turbo on the D17 engine. The 19 had a lower compression ratio than the D17 and the 19's still had gasket /head troubles and then had updates on them and still weren't that super great.
Would be better to just slip in a 262 gas motor...
Or find the 265 cu 180/185/190 gas or 2800 diesel motor, frame rails, front end and marry that on and have live hydraulics...
Or put a 4BT Cummins in.
|
Thanks for the input...The reason I asked about putting a turbo on a D-17 diesel was that back in the early mid-1970's there were (4) D-17 AC diesel pulling tractors in my area....All had turbos and pulled the 5500 lb class and ran pretty good... They seemed to stay together and didnt blow head gaskets like the 460-560 IH diesels..I see that a D-19 is 14-1 compression and a D-17 is 15.7-1 compression..
I already have two D-19 gas tractors so kind of want to keep this one with a D262 in it..It would never be worked any,just a tractor to take to shows..
|
|
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 11:37am |
|
I have a later originally a combine gas block in in my early D17D. I fabbed a block off plate for the block mounted pump and put the original style head on it. Hard to say if the head gasket would hold boost with another 1 3/4 points. Much better fasteners are available today so maybe no problem.
|
|
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20485
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 1:07pm |
|
I have always been very anti-D-19 diesel and claimed the sleeve lip (or lack of) was the problem. I looked up some sleeve specs and can tell you the 301 and 426 A-C engines had a lip of .094" to .095" and seldom is there ever a problem. The Buda wet sleeve engine lip was .034" to .035". Mack says the fire rings are too soft, allowing the sleeves to start hammering against them and then things get loose real quick. He may be onto something BUT, the sleeve lip is sooooo small compared to the 301/426 engines. Even a D-17 gas was .108" !!!!! The Buda wet sleeve lip is fine as a gas engine, but a turbo diesel?? it's a breakdown in the making.
|
|
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 10:43am |
|
That was what I was thinking too. Not an easy job for a machinist to measure and do to measure and cut those counterbores. After I had done my engine, someone posted a link to an outfit in L.A. that made custom sleeves with wider flanges to combat that problem. The sleeves were standard width between each bore and elongated on the sides. I'm sure that takes a very proficient machinist to get that right, but I'm sure sleeve drop would be a thing of the past.
|
|
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
|
|
DonDittmar
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Points: 2484
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 9:18am |
Calvin Schmidt wrote:
Further to what Don said. The 262 gas and LP blocks, cranks, and sleeves are the same as the diesels. A few years ago we found a good gas block, crank , and used it to rebuild a late D-17 diesel engine. |
And to further that more lol, you have to remember that Allis engines were always diesel first, then gas and LP. More or less, the gas and LP engines (HARVEY, not West Allis) were built off of the diesel engine platform. Allis gas engines were way heavier built than they needed to be
|
|
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20485
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 3:57pm |
|
That would be true for the 2000 and 3000 series, which were direct injection/open chamber type diesels. The G-230/G-262/D-230/D-262 were also built in the Harvey Plant, but were from the BUDA lineage which were the LaNova combustion chamber design, and were not a true A-C like the 2000 and 3000 series.
|
|
Don(MI)
Orange Level
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
Points: 3801
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 6:33pm |
|
Why did Allis carry over the Buda diesel lanova design? Was that just an inherited design? So Allis could get into the diesel market without developing the engine first?
Seems like once Allis engineered their own Diesel engines, things got better! Thoughts?
|
|
Galatians 5:22-24
"I got a pig at home in a pen and corn to feed him on, All I need is a pretty little girl to feed him when I'm gone!"
|
|
tbran
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3294
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 8:17pm |
|
In the mid 70's, I was at the Harvey plant and saw 2 6 cyl cylinder heads on a pallet. I knew they were smaller and shaped different than the 2800 heads - after some questions we found out they were used in testing a direct injection head for the D262.
The tests were ok, but the 4.33 (2200 turbo) engine proved better torque and hp at the same fuel consumption. At over 100 hp the d262 direct inj at the higher 16:1 compression showed much higher rod bearing wear over the 4.33.
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20485
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 7:18am |
|
The LaNova design was much less harsh on engine components than direct injection. In 1953 when the WD-45 diesel came out, it seemed almost everyone (except Detroit) was using the Lanova combustion chamber. Direct injection/open chamber hammers on things much more than pre-combustion chambers do.
|
|
Alex (wi)
Bronze Level
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Points: 159
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Jan 2018 at 7:20pm |
|
What would happen if you put a D19 turbo on a late D17 Diesel engine?
|
|
d17brown
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: farley iowa
Points: 1687
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Jan 2018 at 8:05pm |
|
put the turbo on a 262 gas
|
|
phil
|
|
Don(MO)
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Bates City MO.
Points: 6862
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Jan 2018 at 11:16pm |
Alex (wi) wrote:
What would happen if you put a D19 turbo on a late D17 Diesel engine? |
If you do and don't mill the pistons down get a lot's of spare head gaskets and fire rings. lol
|
|
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
|
|
