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drak 
Silver Level
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Location: uk
Points: 142
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 Topic: heating suggestions needed
Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 12:33pm |
HI I hope every one is safe from the bad weather that I seen on the news, this winter I plan to do some restoration work to my wc, what I need is some sort of heating in my garage an need some advice as to what the best method, I am afraid to use some form without a naked flame like a log burner or lpg gas with all the petrol around or spraying with thinners, may be every thing could ignite and blow my garage up, all ideas ???  thanks in advance John
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chaskaduo
Orange Level
Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Location: Twin Cities
Points: 5200
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 12:37pm |
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Hot water heat with boiler outside.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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MNLonnie
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Baxter MN
Points: 4791
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 2:00pm |
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Hot water heat with boiler inside.
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21821
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 2:18pm |
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Well, you have to have some insulation to whatever space you have. I get by with one 1500 Watt 110 volt electric heater in my 20 x 24 ft garage. When it's really cold, I use two heaters.
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DougS
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Points: 2490
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 3:42pm |
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How cold does it get in your winters? If 10F is a cold night you might be able to get by with a window air conditioner/heat pump. You get the advantage of A/C in the summer too.
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chaskaduo
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Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Location: Twin Cities
Points: 5200
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 4:01pm |
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MNLonnie I said outside boiler because he mentioned use in a garage, and fear of explosions from flammable vapors (painting and solvent cleaning). It does not take much evaporated solvent or dust in a enclosed area to cause an explosion. If he uses an electric boiler it is not very frugal, where as a outside wood fired or even gas boiler is more frugal to run. Electric hot air is probably the easiest way to go for set up.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24645
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 5:09pm |
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insulate before buying any heat source. I have a natgas furnace in my 2 car garage in a separate but attached room . It's also where the air compressor lives. I use quartz IR heaters to warm up tractors long before painting as warm air will never get cold cast iron up to painting temp 25*C/70*F. I do shut off the furnace when painting,primarily to stop the air from moving.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Reindeer
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Points: 650
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 5:42pm |
I have a couple of what we call tube heaters. They burn natural gas inside a 4" steel tube, so the fire is contained and exhausted. The heat is infrared, so keeps the machinery nice and toasty. Very important to insulate well, as that will cost much less than trying to heat an uninsulated space.
There are many manufacturers of the tube heaters. Attached is a link to a local one in Calgary.
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*DougW
Bronze Level
Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Lancaster PA.
Points: 75
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 7:28pm |
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I like my tube heater, heats objects, not air. Efficient, safe, basically maintenance free.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 24645
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 8:07pm |
tubes are GREAT, just be sure you have the height for them ! you need space above as well as below. not all are the same either so do a LOT of looking online before you buy. In my garage setup I don't have any ducting. simply 2 holes in the 'utility room' wall. cold air from garage goes into furnace(through 2nd 'rough' filter), hot air comes out other hole up high. Simple 2 vane 'shutter' to get hot air..here and there. Been that way for 20 years, every winter I look at putting in ducting but then decide having a 20x10 duct down the middle of the 8' ceiling would be a royal PITA !! furnace is 75K BTU, heats garage to 'nice' in 10-15 minutes, 'florida mode' in 30.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
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Posted: 15 Sep 2018 at 8:42pm |
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I would not have heaters that heat objects. IH dealer had them. Hot in one place cold in another. I don't care if tractor is warm, I want to be warm. MACK
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bradley6874
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Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: salisbury md
Points: 1349
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 1:31am |
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Have you poured the cement floor yet if not put radiant heat in the floor even if you don't hook it up right now you can't put it in later
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Fat albert
Bronze Level
Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Location: Blanchardville
Points: 15
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 5:52am |
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I agree with Mack on the infrared tube heaters. As a hvac technician. One end of tube is 800 plus the other is 180f and feels cool also have seen many times where paint has burnt of objects that are too close. Still better than no heat.
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plummerscarin
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Joined: 22 Jun 2015
Location: ia
Points: 3901
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:08am |
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So many variables, so many choices. My old shop had a forced air furnace that I could shut off when when I was not to be in there for a while. I'd go out and start furnace a half hour before I wanted to work in there but floor was never warm. Fuel costs could be low as it only runs when you're in there. Downside is flammable vapors could pose a threat. Remodeled shop 5 years ago. Raised the ceiling and poured a new floor with radiant heat. A small boiler hangs on the wall out of the way. Sealed combustion chamber draws air from outside. Up side is no risk of fire from fumes and the floor is warm which allows a lower thermostat setting. Downside is you cant shut it off during heating season because it takes too long to bring up to temp. The lower t-stat setting and highly efficient boiler make up for that. IMO IR tubes are nice but there are warm spots and cool spots and you gotta watch your head room. All in all I love my warm floor best.
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MNLonnie
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Baxter MN
Points: 4791
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:28am |
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By inside boiler I meant electric, only way to go. Although I do use water tubes in the floor it could be set up with a heat exchanger of some sort for hot air. I know plenty of people with outside boilers on wood and gas, they are as inefficient as you can get. Most people figure around 15-20 cord of wood or $1500 in gas. My shop is 30x50 and it is kept at 70 degrees all winter for $800. The boiler is 18" square and 4" thick hanging on the wall.
One complaint I have heard on infrared tubes is that if you are on top of a vehicle you will get cooked because you are too close and if you are under it you will freeze because you are not in sight of the tubes so there is no heat.
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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plummerscarin
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Joined: 22 Jun 2015
Location: ia
Points: 3901
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:52am |
To clarify, My boiler is a LPG boiler. 30,000 BTU heats 2400 sq ft. with 12 ft ceiling. Cost $750 last season with thermostat at 65 degrees. This cost is based on the price of LP when you call for fill. I helped a friend of mine install a warm floor in his new building. Same size as mine. He chose an electric boiler. Has separate meter from REC for a different rate. IDK what it cost him to heat last season, I'll find out. Interestingly, he has an outdoor wood boiler for heat and hot water in the house but did not route a loop to the new building. He claims to like cutting wood but it takes a lot of time. Me, I have better things to do than cut wood for heat.
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BillinAlberta
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Saskatchewan
Points: 356
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 1:05pm |
2 connected 30 by 30 by 12 foot high shop spaces. 1 is heated by tube infrared-50000btu. I keep it at 10c when I'm not working and crank it up when needed.Works great for me. R20 insulation all round helps.Well sealed doors are also important. Just finished insulation and closing in the other side so I went looking for a heat source.Seems like the tube heater works well and calls for 50000 btu input while the unit heater needs 80000 btu input for similar performance and around the same cost installed. Given my experience with radiant heat the savings in gas input makes it a no brainer. I also worked in a shop with underfloor heat for a while and found it unpleasant working under vehicles. Too freakin' hot! A bloody mess when it sprung a leak to boot.
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Reindeer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Points: 650
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 1:50pm |
Jay commented on the height requirement for tube heaters. You do need to have a minimum of 4 feet from the heater to any combustible surface according to the instructions for mine. Ignore this and you may get some surprises. Heard of one chap who put one too low over his vehicles, and ruined the paint.
As long as you have room and the building is well insulated, they keep things very comfortable.
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bradley6874
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Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: salisbury md
Points: 1349
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 2:56pm |
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I use forced air if you use a newer unit with vented combustion no risk of fire also use a programmable t stat keep all programs set at say 50 deg turn it up when you go out to work if you forget to reset it the next time setting will automatically put it back on 50
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 5009
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 4:08pm |
I think this question is kind of like asking what a tractor is worth. You will get a lot of different ideas, depending on each person's opinion. I have a wood burning furnace. While it works for me, I can understand why it might not work for you. Someone mentioned electric. Electric rates here are very high, which makes it not viable in our area. My son-in-law and daughter live 12 miles away in Quebec. Their "hydro" (electric) rates are very reasonable and they have an electric furnace that heats their house. I think you have to consider the options that you feel are safe and pick the one that best suits your wants and needs. There is no universal right or wrong answer.
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Dusty MI
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
Points: 5059
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 4:45pm |
I'm on my second shop/garage, and I've had/got L.P. fired tube heaters in both. In shops where you're not in working every day, it's the best way to heat it. If it's being worked in everyday then maybe the hot water in floor may be better. My shop that I'm in now is a 30'x40'x10' Morton pole barn, with 2 10'x8' over head doors and one service doors and 3 double pane windows. It's very well insulated. I put in a Dayton 50,000 btu tube heater. The instructions say that the way that I have it installed that it needs to be 6" below combustibles, 48" above until 20' from burner, then 30" This type of heat is great, especially if doors are opened often, or even outdoors in an area that protected from the wind. Its like being in the sunshine. If you're going to install it in a shop that there will be combustibles vapors you should pipe the combustion air from outdoors to the burner fan.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Brampton 02 gt
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Location: Erin,ON, Canada
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Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 5:15pm |
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I heat my insulated 2 car garage with a 220 v (30amp) milk house electric heater. I think it is 4500 watts up here in Canada. I start it and let it run half hour before I go out and it is warm enough I don't need a jacket. After a couple of hrs it is too hot and I turn it down. Cost about 50 cent an hr to run I figure with our overpriced electricity here in Ontario. Looked at natural gas but pay back was not there. Only drawback is fan on heater is a bit loud.
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