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WaltDevore 
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Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: IdahoSprings CO
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 Topic: HD5G Idler replacement
Posted: 09 Oct 2021 at 11:55pm |
Wondering how tough it is to change the idler and is the 20 ton press completely necessary. My track is 50% worn. With the adjuster all the way in, the track looks like this:
This is the position of the old idler on its mounting bar:
The idler to be installed:
Condition of circumference:
The track has come off so many times (when adjusted) I think I can get it off without splitting the track.
How tough would it be to transfer the inner bearings and shaft to the new idler? Can a rank amateur do it who tries pretty hard?
With the more bulky replacement idler is there a chance to get the track back on without splitting it? Do I run a risk of having to split it and it being much more difficult from being loose?
One more issue, the rebuilt engine starts and idles well, but does not rev up much. As iI move the throttle from idle to full the speed stays closer to a little faster idle, nowhere near full. When I removed the engine the control rods got bent. I straightened them the best I could but they are still crooked. I think the problem may be in the governor. I have the throttle and shut off rods moving without interference (just barely).
This has been four months of arduous work, I'm sure hoping to get things right before the big cold.
Thanks so much for your input.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 5:54am |
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You better removed the master pine and separated the track and not surs if it is the master pine in picture were a brooken pad and about the motor did you change the fuel filter or maybe the governor rod need adjustement
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Ray54
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Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 6:56pm |
I would guess just fixing the idler is not going to keep your track on. Old school is a 10 lb or bigger hammer to take the master pin out. Build a jig you can use a bolt whole in the pad to bolt it up and hold your punch to push pin out. Or if you have a crazzy friend that will hold the punch. I have held the punch with a pipe sitting on blocks for a friend that was good at this kind of thing. He used a 16 lbs hammer. If your bottom rollers still have good bearings, is there any lip or shoulder to keep the track on top of rollers when you turn.
If you are thinking of using a press to remove the master my guess is 50 ton may not be enough.
I believe it should be tapered roller bearing in the idler. Hammer the races out and tap new in.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 5:40am |
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You have to press the shaft out of the idler assembly as per the manual: we used a 50 ton press on my Son-in-law's HD5G idler and the gauge indicated just over 40 tons of force before it came apart.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 5:56am |
 WaltDevore wrote:
...
How tough would it be to transfer the inner bearings and shaft to the new idler? Can a rank amateur do it who tries pretty hard?... |
I would not recommend doing this; removing the old races and re-installing them perfectly straight without damage will be quite difficult to accomplish. If you do wish to try it, do NOT use a hardened punch, nor should a soft brass punch be used. Get a suitable size piece of mild steel rod and grind it to shape as needed. Use a fairly heavy hammer, 3-4 pounds is about right, and use light blows, tapping around the race to keep it straight. Edit: You may be able to simply transfer the entire inner assembly to the new wheel without removing the races as they are already on the old shaft and bearing retainer, the bearing clearance may need adjusted by adding or removing shims. Good luck :-)
Edited by Les Kerf - 11 Oct 2021 at 6:04am
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gemdozer
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Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 4:24pm |
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After recheck the picture if you change the idler it will change nothing and if you have no more adjustement it should be the tread in yoke are no more good if the adjstement rod tread are in good condition you could instaled a second big lock nut on the rod adjustement and with the new idler with the track 50% worn the bushings ill hit the center idler gide and after 20hours work the bushing will be scraped
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:02pm |
Ray54 wrote:
I would guess just fixing the idler is not going to keep your track on... |
I agree, it's time to remove a link.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:52pm |
Les Kerf wrote:
Ray54 wrote:
I would guess just fixing the idler is not going to keep your track on... |
I agree, it's time to remove a link.
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And wear out the rest of the UC... 
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 8:12am |
Yup. Or maybe he could just waltz on down to his local friendly Allis-Chalmers dealer and buy a new set of tracks, they probably have several sets in stock, ya know... 
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 10:28pm |
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WORST THING ONE CAN DO
Removing a link to take out slack in track - if track pins and bushings are wore that much then the sprockets will suffer NEXT
There is a set distance between roller and that corresponds to the sprocket pitch .
If the distance is greater it means roller will contact tooth of sprocket - which stresses the bushing and wears the tooth
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 9:12am |
Coke-in-MN wrote:
WORST THING ONE CAN DO
Removing a link to take out slack in track - if track pins and bushings are wore that much then the sprockets will suffer NEXT
There is a set distance between roller and that corresponds to the sprocket pitch .
If the distance is greater it means roller will contact tooth of sprocket - which stresses the bushing and wears the tooth |
Agreed. These old machines are obviously very close to EOL (End Of Life). When the tracks will no longer stay on because they are too loose, and no replacement parts are available, the only thing left to do is park it in the yard and plant flowers in the bucket.  But those of us rapidly approaching our own EOL can get a bit more use out the these old machines, then our grandchildren can plant flowers in the buckets. 
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 11:24am |
 Picture of my HD5G -# 26784 - 1955 machine i bought used in 1972 and still have - used in excavating business up until 2005 and now retired to personal use . Daaa = How to hasten the demise - use methods to override the design and stress factors of parts and break something else while saying it's a acceptable method .
If the track rail is still good - remove and replace the master pin when having the pins and bushings turned .
If there is a good side yet to rollers bringing it into contact with sprocket lessens the chance of breaking rear housing or gears with a quick fix .
Edited by Coke-in-MN - 13 Oct 2021 at 11:29am
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 11:41am |
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While digging a basement on a house around 1976 - I ended up with track problem - removed one link to finish job which took about a hour of work after quick fix .
Loaded machine back on trailer - took home to shop - removed tracks from both sides and had track replaced along with one sprocket .
1950 - HD5B - bought machine - had pins and bushings turned as had top side of bushing showing no wear - replaced broken axle as former owner ran it with outer truck support bearing go bad and kept using it (Link Belt bearing in housing bolted to truck frame )
2nd - HD5G - 1953 - former owner ran it through one side of bushing - destroying both pin and bushing rather than having them turned - ended up breaking rear housing top outer bearing race from case - replaced rear housing , found used track from HD6G had it shortened 2 links and sold the machine a year later .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DougG
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Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 2:45pm |
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So this didnt work out good for you ?
Edited by DougG - 13 Oct 2021 at 2:48pm
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 11:45am |
Thanks for the replies. I may have created confusion in that the slack track picture is with the adjusting bolt (shaft) turned all the way in for maximum slack. I can adjust the track out no problem for proper tension. Thus the track still has
50% life. I wonder how much that changes things? So getting the track off the idler staying intact is not difficult. I wonder if the track intact could be pulled back over the idler? I think coating the idler with grease to minimize the friction would be helpful. I'd have the tilt hydraulic and another tractor to help with pulling the track on. My fear is that too much pressure may crack something.
If that is not a good idea, then removing the pin is the issue. My instinct is to use a biggest sledge. Is that not a good idea? I have heard it's not a good idea to use heat, while others say it's the only way.
I"m so close to having a working tractor after a full five months of teeth gnashing doing the work. Your help has been so appreciated.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 1:01pm |
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If you can removed the idler with out separated the track you can reinstaled too and me I all time use a 16 lbs sleedge hammer for removed the master pine
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 4:51pm |
WaltDevore wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I may have created confusion in that the slack track picture is with the adjusting bolt (shaft) turned all the way in for maximum slack. I can adjust the track out no problem for proper tension. Thus the track still has
50% life. I wonder how much that changes things? |
That changes things quite a bit; I misunderstood and thought that you were out of adjustment. If the track comes off readily it can also go back on without damage. If you do need to remove the master pin use the biggest hammer you can swing. As has been mentioned before, buck the track with a pipe braced to the other side to minimize lost motion.
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 10:04am |
I hope to pull the track off intact at maximum slack using another tractor to help pull. I then hope to remove the bearing assembly to transfer to the replacement idler. Hopefully that will be an intact piece without too much fancy messing around. I then trust the amount of max slack coupled with greasing the replacement idler circumference will allow me to work it back on with track intact. Sure need to get this done. Winter is severely threatening.
Thanks to everyone for their caring and assistance.
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