HD-5G Add 4n1 Bucket

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   I have a 1955 HD-5G that I want to convert to 4n1.  
Want to replace my valve body with a 3 lever body.
Read that the hydrualics are 30 GPM at 1200 PSI.
There are no old macinery scrap yards here in VA.
What is a good source for such a big valve body?
Wayne in southern VA

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WayneB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Location: Lunenburg. VA Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote WayneB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: HD-5G Add 4n1 Bucket Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 7:40am
	I have a 1955 HD-5G that I want to convert to 4n1. Want to replace my valve body with a 3 lever body. Read that the hydrualics are 30 GPM at 1200 PSI. There are no old macinery scrap yards here in VA. What is a good source for such a big valve body? Wayne in southern VA

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DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31067	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 8:01am
	I would get on machinery trader and see what the scrap yards close to you have available, probably PA or OH, maybe into TN to find one. The old Allis valves are pretty well model specific even with the variations they used over the years but I know of no new replacements out there.

Andrew_D Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 28 May 2013 Location: Newdale,MB,Can Points: 148	Post Options Post Reply Quote Andrew_D Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 8:11am
	Does it have to be an "original" valve body? If not, any hydraulic shop should be able to find you a valve. I guess it depends if you are going for "original" or "functional". I'm planning to add remote couplers to the rear of my HD11 for pulling implements, but I want it to work, not win parades! (No offense meant if original is what you want.) Andrew Edited by Andrew_D - 15 Mar 2014 at 8:13am

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41572	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 8:39am
	I had a 4 in 1 bucket i was going to put on my HD4 or HD5G After several years of setting out back it went to auction - more problems than it was worth finding a valve body . Especially for the HD5 as it is high volume low pressure
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31067	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 9:17am
	I have a 7G with a 4/1, the valve body is pretty unique for my machine. I also have a valve body off a 7G that had a ripper and they are different.

WayneB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Location: Lunenburg. VA Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote WayneB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 11:28am
	Thanks for the replies. Yes, I am going for functional, as this is not one of the 4n1s from Allis equipment. Am I correct that the HD-5G GPM is about 30 but at 1200 PSI?. Like Coke said, Low pressure High Volume. So far, with new valve bodies, the lowest pressure I can find is adjustable down to 1500. I am thinking that the leather packings on the cylinders won't withstand high pressure. Is that a fair assumption? Were the HD-7 loaders also low pressure high volume? Candidate suggestions for searching in junkyards? Wayne

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41572	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 2:05pm
	All the packing in the HD5 are V ring packing and will stand a higher pressure but as pressure rises the volume becomes the other part of pump equation. What size cylinders are on the 4-1 bucket , another idea would be a solenoid valve to split the flow or divert the flow on the bucket tilt cylinder output to the clam of bucket. Remember you still need to have the float position on the boom for dropping bucket and back-dragging or such
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

DiyDave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 51674	Post Options Post Reply Quote DiyDave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 7:04pm
	Check out Surpluscenter.com

Deas Plant. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Location: Australia Points: 12	Post Options Post Reply Quote Deas Plant. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 8:01am
	Hi, WayneB. The operating pressure of most hydraulic systems is a function of the pressure relief valve(s) rather than the pump and/or control valves. If you have a valve body/bank that will cope with the flow rate of your HD5G, it will most likely do the job as almost all control valves that you will find today are designed to withstand far higher pressures than your system runs with. Please note that I said "withstand" - NOT 'require'. A valve bank designed for a higher pressure system will usually work quite happily with lower pressures 'cos all it is doing is directing the flow of hydraulic fluid to where you want it to go. Unless the ONLY pressure relief valve in the entire system is incorporated into the original valve body and would be lost if you replaced that valve bank, there ought not to be a problem. Since you sound as if you are planning on adding a 3-valve bank into a system which already has a relief valve set at the recommended working pressure for your system, you would only need to make sure that any valve bank that you fit can handle the flow rates of your system. Coke-in-MN's suggestion of a solenoid diverter valve in the crowd ram circuit is problematic as you need the crowd circuit to work as well when using the 4-in-1 for 'clamming' so that you can roll the bucket back as the clam closes. Personally, I do a LOTT of work with track loaders fitted with 4-in-1 buckets and I NEVER use the float function for clamming 'cos all of the machines that I use have a joystick control for hoist and crowd functions. How-wevver, if you want the float function on your bucket hoist, you will need to find a 3-valve bank with float on at least one of those 3 valves. As I see it, the only real criteria for a 3-valve bank for your purpose is it will handle the flow rate - - - and has a control valve with a float position if you want that. Just my 0.02. Hope it helps. You have a wonderful conversion. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

WayneB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Location: Lunenburg. VA Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote WayneB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 5:16pm
	Deas, Thanks. Very informative. With what I picked up from COKE, and a few others, I will do this, as many others have already done to a HD-5G. Made a call to the Surplus center, pertaining to valve details , and have choices that look better as I go. Wayne

Coke-in-MN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Afton MN Points: 41572	Post Options Post Reply Quote Coke-in-MN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 11:21pm
	The pressure relief valve is separate and is a 3/4" line mounted below the cross tube support on the HD5G loader frame. It's separate from the valve body . As the 5G valve body dumps flow back into the right loader tower through the bottom of the valve body, you new valves will have to be plumbed somehow to return to that tower with lines or pipe off the valve. The fact the 1" supply line does handle that flow of 30 GPM will have to be taken into account.
	Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

Deas Plant. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Location: Australia Points: 12	Post Options Post Reply Quote Deas Plant. Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 2014 at 5:16am
	Hi, WayneB. Yer welkum, M8. Glad to be of assistance. Like the other forums where I hang out, you have a LOT of GOOD people here. Sadly, I don't get over here much in spite of a lasting love of the Persian Orange construction machinery 'cos I am a moderator on TWO other forums. IF you can't find a suitable triple valve body with a float position on one circuit, it may be worth going to a little more effort and combining the lift and crowd controls into one joystick control working both valves 'cos this pretty much eliminates the need for a float position on the hoist by allowing you to work both hoist and crowd functions with one hand while the other hand controls the 4-in-1 bucket function. Coke-in-MN is right about the return line from the valve body. It has to be capable of taking the full flow from the pump when no valves are open, just as the pressure line from the pump has to be capable of taking the full flow from the pump to the valve bank. Many systems ackshully put the relief valve directly in the return line from the valve bank to the tank to maintain pressure at the valve bank. This results in the relief valve being open pretty much all the time unless a control valve or valves is/are opened. The other thing that it achieves is having full flow and pressure available to all valves and circuits ALL the time - providing that the pump(s), valves, plumbing and pressure relief valves are all matched up for the system. I hope all goes well with your adaptation. Just my 0.02 You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.