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HD21G RECOVERY TO AC COLLECTION

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AC Mel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:02am
Ok, guys as busy as we have been we took several Saturdays to retrieve this HD21G loader. This loader belonged to Tom Engle and was parked on his property in Sonoma County Ca. between Healdsburg and Geyserville on hiway 101.  Sooo....I hope I have the story right... Tom and his family migrated to the area in the late 1950s or early 1960s from the San Diego area. Tom used the tractor on his property for miscellaneous projects and improvements for several years. It was parked along the highway where it was very visible. My brother and I first stopped and talked to Tom about it probably 25 years ago....knowing that it had not moved for many years...thinking he might get rid of it. I remember it as a fun visit....and he liked his one AC as much as we liked are dozen ACs!  (not a surprise to anyone on this forum) He was pretty sure he was going to use it some more. We made our first official offer on 2-15-08....still have the letter on my file cabinet. We thought it was a generous offer...more than scrap was worth at the time.  It weighs appox 75000# with the rippers....he was appreciative of the offer and said he would consider it.
 
 photo PA140067_zpszxisbe5r.jpg
Once we made the offer we knew there wasn't much else we could do....we did continue to stop by or call him....and he was always happy to talk tractors (like us) We also had friends that would stop by and lobby on our behalf...that it would not go for scrap. He made the comment to one of them that he had been offered $10,000.00. That was about the time the delivered scrap price here in Ca. had escalated to $500.00 a ton delivered....could have made the tractor worth about $15,000.00....so after knowing that...we quit worrying about it. We were still very sure that Tom would not sell it for scrap...but we knew we could not compete for the value that was now on it.
  So to fast forward a bit.....Tom passed away a couple of years ago. His son Tom is handling the estate. They have had to do a lot of cleanup....and knowing how important this tractor was to there father...it was the last thing to go. Tom had placed an ad that RickV (of ACforum fame) spotted. He contacted Tom and made a tentative deal to take the tractor....Rick later contacted us to see if we had interest in helping him move it.....or maybe take it....he was also thinking it might be too big of job being that far away.We contacted Tom and made arrangements to buy the tractor and move it.  The time frame to move it became very complicated for us....do to fires last year....then maybe being to wet where the tractor was parked...then fire work again this year. Need to thank Tom and the estate for there patience to do this.
   So the first thing we had to worry about to move this tractor was ....literately will it move. It had been sitting for so long we had lots of concerns...track links rusted together(we've had that)...brake bands rusted to steering clutches (we've had that)...engines froze up with the clutches all stuck (we've had that)    Sooo... we we're taking bets on what happened. 
  So I haven't posted anything for some time....videos were always a problem with Photo Bucket....There gone from videos....so I have taken the big plunge to" utube " ...spent some time trying to figure out how to keep it separate from my day to day PC accounts. I have edited and spliced lots of video for posting...if it works.  So I'm going to try the first upload now to see if it works....then I can continue the story.

    https://youtu.be/-PUOlp0AwWU
 
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AC Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:05am
Ok, so that link doesn't work....Ok guys don't post anything until I get the link to work.
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AC Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:15am



  Maybe this?
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:38am
That is a BIGGG LOADER!!!!
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AC Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:56am
Ok...so once we got it to move..we thought the easiest way to load it would be to push it backwards onto a cozad trailer. We tried to lift the ripper bar with the D6 blade....but it wouldn't do it.  Our plan was to take an oil line loose...lift it with the boom truck...drop the ripper teeth out...and put some angle iron pieces on the hydraulic cylinders to lock them up.
 photo PA200072_zpsbqydu1zi.jpg
 photo PA200073_zpse5lcatjz.jpg
We did put a oil drain bucket to catch the oil from the loose hose.
 photo PA200077_zps5kvst8zj.jpg

   



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AC Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:58am
 


  Ok still trying to figure the utube links
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 12:09pm
After we got the ripper bar up...we cut some angle iron pieces to the right length to jam the hydraulic cylinders in the up position.
 photo PA200083_zpslkamvkks.jpg
Supposed to look like this when it was done...and it worked
 photo PA200085_zpskv0dsuwn.jpg
So with the ripper bar locked up...we loaded the ripper teeth and prepared for the next big event.
 photo PA200089_zpstxb0qgxz.jpg
 photo PA200091_zpsacuo2gsh.jpg
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darrel in ND View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 1:30pm
Dang, it sure is good to hear from you again Mel. And then to come back on here with an exciting project like this one is icing on the cake. Your hat buddy from Nebraska is taking a little time off of here while his computer is getting fixed. he hasn't been on in almost two weeks, but some folks have been checking up on him. Now if you'll just stick with us, it'll all be good. Thanks, darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 5:43pm
[TUBE]siLKvSKMuVc[/TUBE]

[TUBE]-PUOlp0AwWU[/TUBE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:06pm
Ok..Darrel..I'm still with you.So the story continues like this. We originally thought we would haul it ourselves..on our cozad. But knowing the weight we thought we would find somebody else. We enlisted the help of a friend...Dennis McFarland...McFarland Trucking Inc, Calpella,Ca.  Dennis has a fleet of logging trucks...some van trucks...some lowbed tucks among other things. He is an antique truck enthusiast.....and has his own truck collection. He's very active in many antique trucking shows and displays as well as organizing them. He's aware of our AC collection.So when we ask him..he said "I'm in..lets go"
   We had plenty of room to work around the tractor so it wasn't to difficult to position the trailer.

 photo PA270003_zpsbxokifx9.jpg
 photo PA270001_zpsk9y8ammc.jpg
 photo PA270004_zps0brhy4gl.jpg
So of course with any important project there is a...safety meeting..or maybe a planning meeting...or yes a BS meeting. So LtoR Dave Ford,Jeff Ford, (no relation) Mel Ford, Dennis McFarland.
  Jeff is the Engle neighbor to the north. He is helping us load the 21 with his Cat D6C. He and his father had a rock quarry and dump trucking company in Sonoma County for many years. They sold there quarry and Jeff is down to one legal Ca. dump truck now (CARB rules). He's thinking about retiring and moving to Nevada...had it with Ca. He and his father had a HD 41 and HD21C in there quarry...can't wait to share the 21C story later. We really appreciate Jeff's help as part of our recovery team.

 photo PA270023_zpsv0hd6qv7.jpg
Jeff had a really straight shot at the trailer and lots of room on both sides to maneuver for steering. photo PA270036_zpsjg0lzxhy.jpg
 


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AC Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:11pm

Ok...DAVE beat me to it...to many interruptions today..Also Dave what is the trick to bypass the link? I'll post more photos tomorrow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6GTOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:17pm
Great to see you back lots of folks been wondering about you. Interesting project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by AC Mel AC Mel wrote:


Ok...DAVE beat me to it...to many interruptions today..Also Dave what is the trick to bypass the link? I'll post more photos tomorrow

Take the exact link, copy it, Go to long form reply, cliclk that, then make sure cursor is blinking, where you want the video, in the post, hit the 8th icon (filmstrip), and a box pops up.  Paste link into box. hit preview, on top, to check, hit post at bottom, to post.

If you are making a new post, you are already in the long form reply format.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 10:17pm
Great to hear from you Mel, especially with a new project!  I figured you would be out with your cat building new fire roads, etc.
I notice in the third from last picture a wheel loader in the background and a person near the tire, perhaps checking the air pressure or something...
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AC Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:06pm
John...good eye..yes we put air in the tires of that loader...we hauled it off for the estate also. that will be a separate post later. Haven't been invited to the current round of fires....another horrible event here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NomoreJohnDeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:40am
great project
all out effort there
HD3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:45am
Always Rescue Old Machines!!!!  ;-)

Great job, guys!!!! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:04pm
Cool thanks for sharing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:41pm
YAAAH!!!  Doesn't look like operator has much chance to see over hood on the loader. Guess you drive off the side view?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rodnil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:22pm
In my younger years of life I worked at the Allis Chalmers plant in Springfield , Illinois. I saw a lot of D 21's go out of that plant. There was overhead cranes that could lift a lot of these machines and load onto rail cars for transportation. We built a lot of HD 16 in Army green headed to Viet Nam. I was drafted in 1965 and one of my last jobs was up fitting the engines going into a D 41 that was to be on display at the state fair. I went off to the army and to Viet Nam came home and later discharged. During that time I was laid off and hired back at least two times. After my discharged I was again in the laid off status. Its good to see those old units being saved and put back into use if only in a display mode . Good luck with your HD 21.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 4:43am
Originally posted by rodnil rodnil wrote:

In my younger years of life I worked at the Allis Chalmers plant in Springfield , Illinois. I saw a lot of D 21's go out of that plant. There was overhead cranes that could lift a lot of these machines and load onto rail cars for transportation. We built a lot of HD 16 in Army green headed to Viet Nam. I was drafted in 1965 and one of my last jobs was up fitting the engines going into a D 41 that was to be on display at the state fair. I went off to the army and to Viet Nam came home and later discharged. During that time I was laid off and hired back at least two times. After my discharged I was again in the laid off status. Its good to see those old units being saved and put back into use if only in a display mode . Good luck with your HD 21.

Rodnil, thanks for your service, both to AC, and the US!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 10:14am
Thanks guy for the nice comments....here's the final pics. 
 photo PA270046_zpstlfoq9ta.jpg
Looks like we just drove it on there
 photo PA270108_zpshih0lp4e.jpg
Here's a team picture  (L to R) Dennis Gulick, Brannen Bray, Dave Ford, Elvi Engle (daughter-in-law of the late Tom Engle), Mel Ford, Dennis McFarland, Jeff Ford..taking the photo Jeff Wright...Jeff usually goes on these rescue missions and runs my camera.
  So we can close this chapter on rescuing Toms HD21G...The next chapter will be started soon...restoring it to operating condition...it will be a slow process...it has lots of big pieces!!  We know Tom will be happy...as well as everyone on the AC Forum that will be watching.

 photo PA270103_zpshaaqecja.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 10:51am
Thanks again for the pictures and story, Mel. I am really looking forward to following the restoration process. I know that you are a busy man, but don't be a stranger on here. Check in often. BTW, what engine is in that beast. ...? Thanks, Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by rodnil rodnil wrote:


In my younger years of life I worked at the Allis Chalmers plant in Springfield , Illinois. I saw a lot of D 21's go out of that plant. There was overhead cranes that could lift a lot of these machines and load onto rail cars for transportation. We built a lot of HD 16 in Army green headed to Viet Nam. I was drafted in 1965 and one of my last jobs was up fitting the engines going into a D 41 that was to be on display at the state fair. I went off to the army and to Viet Nam came home and later discharged. During that time I was laid off and hired back at least two times. After my discharged I was again in the laid off status. Its good to see those old units being saved and put back into use if only in a display mode . Good luck with your HD 21.

Rod,I was around 9 back then but I distinctly remember that "Fair" 41 had 2 engines side by side and a B1 or B10 setting on the hood.Was I dreaming?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:57pm
The engine in the HD-21 series had at least TWO different engines... the early ones a BUDA 844ci, the later ALLIS 21000... but for some reason, what I've read, that the HD21 line stopped with the C model.  I suspect the sources are incorrect...

One of the neat things... is that the Nebraska rated drawbar horsepower comes to a pinch over 135...

...but the drawbar PULL... 40,563lbs...for a 45,500lb machine.  That's commensurate with a well-set-up tracked vehicle- the soil tractive-effort predictions of wheeled vehicles don't apply here... it's almost a 1:1 under basically any condition.

The reason the drawbar horsepower is so low at that (astronomical) pull level, is simply because it's moving SLOW.  (Work = force x distance,  power = work x time).

I'd be willing to bet... that when that ripper is dug in, if one were to measure the actual drawbar force it was capable of generating, that it'd go substantially higher because the ripper's downforce was augmenting the 'plant' of the tracks.  With Tom's unit... a heavy load of dirt in the bucket probably made that ripper downright incredible...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Hauter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 7:52pm
Fantastic, interesting, inspiring job!  Another A-C dozer rescued.  I remember seeing an HD41 at the Illinois State Fair.  That was one really big dozer!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:39pm
That loader really looks big when it's setting on the low boy!  I wonder how bad the engine is?  Looking forward to progress on then machine!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:21pm
yet another great save by my big buddy MEL! thanks for posting this and I and others are looking forward to your updates as they happen! also glad to see you safe from all them fires ya'll been having out there again/still!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:51pm
That is great there Mell... saving that old iron... and always amzes me how you folks seem to make a restoration look so easy... and almost effortlessly ... and quick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 6:56am
Mel....was you the firstest one to jump in line so you could stand next to the gal?
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