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HD11G help

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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 3:01pm
There is a drain beneath the hydraulic tank, is inside the access hole under the fender.
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RonnieJones View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:03pm
Thanks DMiller. I found an old coffee can stuffed in a corner and weaseled it in between the wing nuts for now. No way I am carrying gallons of fluid down the hill lol. It's wet slippery, muddy, cold and just waiting to warm up all over me. I would be one well oiled machine lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:39pm
I guess I'll start with the Injection Pump. Some things I noticed was that both? fuel lines are disconnected. It looks like there is one at the filter, gonna say inlet. On the other end the return line if it has one, or is that something else?
It also looks like the timing gear could possibly be behind the timing cover?
So here is the tag for the pump

I took a few different angles.

It appears to be a cover on the front/left also that rod looks like some sort of stabilizer that was broken.

I lightly pulled on the throttle and both of those linkages moved with no effort but I did not go all the way down. Just enough to see if they moved.

Just the injectors and remnants of the wood rats.
This is it for the fuel injection. 
Why the fuel line is off I have no idea. The more I look at this I have a suspicion this was down before the fire.
Next will be some miscellaneous photos.



Edited by RonnieJones - 30 Nov 2018 at 4:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:08pm
Here are few Misc things. I have no idea about the first one. It looks like its for part of the cooling system. It looked like it was attached to the water pump. The generator was in front of it. It hard for me to tell for sure whats up front from the sides.


This is whats left of the wiring behind the instrument panel. I did not see a hour meter anywhere. Did they not have them in then? All I see are the four I took a photo of already.
 
I noticed this pipe is ether missing something or was cut. It looked like it's for PCV/ crank case ventilation. It runs across the valve cover.



After removing some more wood rat nest I was shocked to see the starter and more melted wire.
I was looking at the bell housing to see if I could find any kind of numbers on it. All I seen was two plates. A large one on the right and a small on the left near the starter.


That's it for these will post under carriage next. Have to go do a few things first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 6:38pm
Alright this is the left side/entry. Both sides look pretty bad to me. So the tracks, if I have learned this correctly consist of plates which are bolted to the chain and ride on small rollers. Then the rear sprocket and the big wheel up front is the idler? 
So here is what I can tell. The chain on both sides are toasted. I doubt the pins are supposed to be half round. The rear top rollers are obviously damaged. The plates, many of them look broken.
I don't know what they mean by rails but I think it's the bottom set of rollers and what they are attached to. I can only see whats above ground so have no idea what the bottom parts look like, probably bad. 

Ok so here are the pics of the left side.

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Rear upper
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I only took photos of the left plates specifically.
I forget who it was mentioned the left side was on backwards. I wonder if they were trying to extend the life of the track.
Thats it for the left side. Next will be Right side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 6:55pm
Ok here is the right side
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^ this one has all it's spokes welded
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Ok thats it for now. Not going to upload any more today. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 7:21pm
Ronnie,
I give you credit for getting the machine uncovered and taking the pictures. I dont have one of these, or any AC track machines (yet) But I do have a IH TD6 that I am still learning about, and as I look at your pictures of the under carriage and tracks I dont see to much good news. Track is very worn as you have stated.  Yes anything can be rebuilt and or repaired. AC Mel would be the best guy I can think of to give you the best evaluation of your machine.
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 5:36am
The fuel line filter to inj pump has been removed, for what purpose is unknown, quite possibly this had already seen a PSB failure, the burnt wiring almost to me indicates the machine was running the starter stayed engaged and smoked the electrical as no other real damage and is down where the local fire would not have gotten to it without scorching the entire machine, that also could be why they removed the fuel line, to try to shut the machine down. Being as was open this long has done no favors.


Rails, rollers are toast, agreed but should it be worthy re=assembly with cat 6.906 rails and modifying the suspension trucks for cat rollers would remedy that. All that wood rat stuff/debris will need to come out before ANY start attempts are made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:12am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

The fuel line filter to inj pump has been removed, for what purpose is unknown, quite possibly this had already seen a PSB failure, the burnt wiring almost to me indicates the machine was running the starter stayed engaged and smoked the electrical as no other real damage and is down where the local fire would not have gotten to it without scorching the entire machine, that also could be why they removed the fuel line, to try to shut the machine down. Being as was open this long has done no favors.


Rails, rollers are toast, agreed but should it be worthy re=assembly with cat 6.906 rails and modifying the suspension trucks for cat rollers would remedy that. All that wood rat stuff/debris will need to come out before ANY start attempts are made.

I have a conspiracy theory for this :) I looked at some of those ether cans for a production date. I think they are from 87 and many are not burned. Aside from the belts and hoses not being burnt where is the batteries? no melted plastic or lead plates and cable ends are still intact. There is also some Milwakes best stashed in the corners of the cab un burned. I know the fire was close but as I continue to look closer at this I strongly agree with you. I think this was down before the fire and used the fire as an excuse to claim as a loss. Inside the cab the fuel tank looks burnt to me but nothing on the outside really stands out that says yep it's burnt.
Now there is a 63 ish GMC think one ton that was definitely burnt and the case skidder. No doubts about these as it is very obvious.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Sugarmaker Sugarmaker wrote:

Ronnie,
I give you credit for getting the machine uncovered and taking the pictures. I dont have one of these, or any AC track machines (yet) But I do have a IH TD6 that I am still learning about, and as I look at your pictures of the under carriage and tracks I dont see to much good news. Track is very worn as you have stated.  Yes anything can be rebuilt and or repaired. AC Mel would be the best guy I can think of to give you the best evaluation of your machine.
Regards,
 Chris
Thank you I have a lot to learn about this machine and AC in general. I have at most another months worth of work to access this part of the property with a vehicle. Right now it's only accessible by foot. So far I have cleared almost half a mile of brush with just a under powered chainsaw, weed eater, reciprocating saw, hand tree saw and pruners that I just broke about 2 weeks ago. 
Over the summer my neighbor came in with his small L35 Kubota backhoe and JohnDeere 750B dozer to help me put in a culvert so I could cross the creek with my truck. I still owe him a bunch of work for the day and a half he spent here. Basically I get to work on his equipment and learn about tractors. I help keep his atv,utv, cars, truck and anything else that has a engine running. He has the equipment and I have the time and most of the knowledge to keep his stuff running.


Edited by RonnieJones - 01 Dec 2018 at 12:02pm
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:11pm
On the photo above the fuel filters to the inj pump the steel tube coming from the small block on the left side of the pump is the transfer pump feed to the secondary filter, the line missing came off that to the inj pump front fitting.



Mel, you hanging thru all this? Would this be a parts machine for you at all? It needs a ton of stuff to make it anywhere near to viable again. Rails rollers, maybe sprocket rings, pump work, fuel lines, wiring, gauges and that just to get it to where can do the rest it needs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by RonnieJones RonnieJones wrote:

Here are few Misc things. I have no idea about the first one. It looks like its for part of the cooling system. It looked like it was attached to the water pump. The generator was in front of it. It hard for me to tell for sure whats up front from the sides.


This is whats left of the wiring behind the instrument panel. I did not see a hour meter anywhere. Did they not have them in then? All I see are the four I took a photo of already.
 
I noticed this pipe is ether missing something or was cut. It looked like it's for PCV/ crank case ventilation. It runs across the valve cover.



After removing some more wood rat nest I was shocked to see the starter and more melted wire.
I was looking at the bell housing to see if I could find any kind of numbers on it. All I seen was two plates. A large one on the right and a small on the left near the starter.


That's it for these will post under carriage next. Have to go do a few things first.


First one is the oil cooler.

The pipe that you question being cut is the engine breather and would have had a rubber pipe joining it.  Open tube, no pcv
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

On the photo above the fuel filters to the inj pump the steel tube coming from the small block on the left side of the pump is the transfer pump feed to the secondary filter, the line missing came off that to the inj pump front fitting.



Mel, you hanging thru all this? Would this be a parts machine for you at all? It needs a ton of stuff to make it anywhere near to viable again. Rails rollers, maybe sprocket rings, pump work, fuel lines, wiring, gauges and that just to get it to where can do the rest it needs.
Thanks 
Lets assume the pump is toasted as well. Has anyone attempted any kind of conversion that you know of?

Ah you hurt my feelings Cry Are you discounting my redneck ingenuity already? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 4:51pm
Ian Beale I didn't notice it until I looked at the photos. That hose clamp on the injector line cant be good. I see the nut in the original photo is actually cut. If this is anything like they did with this house I am gonna be  in for some crazy repair work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 5:03pm
Maintenance by Joe Fiddler?

If you mean the hose clamp in the second last one don't sweat.  That is on the spillover line from the injectors and pump  back to the tank.  Another of those Sealastic fittings. 

In your photos of the pump that line comes from the fitting on the front of the head.  It looks like you have the early valve setup there - which I've only read about.  Later ones just have an elbow with a restrictor.  I think the rest of the missing plumbing there feeds diesel back to the tank return.

This might help on what went where around the pump.  With that potentially stuck pump you're going to skip the alignment details below and set that up after the pump is out.






Edited by Ian Beale - 01 Dec 2018 at 6:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 9:56pm
Ok guys..up and running again. Went thru the PM channel to get Ronnies email to give him some info on Manuals I thought would be helpful...haven't got an answer back there yet..but I think it went through.
  So Dave... yes been following along...we concur with everything you have said..my brother and I both noticed the missing fuel line...and thought..."that's not good" whats that mean? red flag?

  So as a boy I remember a saying my father had (he was born in 1916...spent a lot of time on a horse...and yes the same guy in some of our posts with his new HD11 cable dozer in 1955)  "BEEN RODE HARD AND PUT AWAY WET"   well this would be applicable to this tractor. So that being said...since I have ''ORANGE" in my veins a Caterpillar couldn't have made it this far.

So to answer one of Ronnies questions..the bracket for the hour meter can be seen in one the pictures (about 8 down on my page 2 to the right of nozzle 5 and 6...a standard place at the time.
  Yes the rails are extremely worn...sprockets very poor also...but...but..but.. if it was running..I could still get something out of it. On the top of the sprocket in one of the pictures you can see a gap in the pads on one side...leads me to say that it's possible that there is a broken rail link there...maybe maybe not. I'm only speaking from experience..."been there done that'' or "poor man has poor ways"
 Something else Ronnie could do would be to reach under the tracks and feel the pins and bushings...no need to try and even look under there..you can feel worn bushings..or track pins coming through bushings...I suspect that might be going on here.
  The intermediate pinion caps in the case have been welded around..which was very common until they upgraded the bolt size...doesn't look like it is a problem now.
 So that being said we think the track pads are better than the ones we have on an 11G in our collection for restoration. Ronnies tractor has the same affliction that a lot of crawler loaders acquire..some one always wants to ad grouser bars to there street pads to turn it into some monster dozer.
  So I have orange in my veins...I wouldn't give up yet..the dipstick..pull the dipstick...whats on it? oil? water? nothing? overfull?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 12:11am
Ronnie, just for our enjoyment, would you post pictures of the skidder and one ton?  And thanks for all the pics you have posted, every entertaining!
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 6:28am
Ian yes for sure by Joe Fiddler. I have to give the guy credit though, we bought the house 20 years later after he rebuilt. Some of the ideas were great just poorly executed and of course some are like WHAT? 
That photo of the lines looks like I am missing more the just one but my oil filler is back by the starter.
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ACMel
It took me a bit to find that bracket in the photo. Maybe the meter is somewhere in there still. It sure was ran very hard. Looks like they just ran it until it couldn't take no more abuse.
This may sound silly but it just dawned on me I haven't noticed a dipstick. Where should it be? I honestly have not looked at any of the fluids. I have left it the way I found it until now. 
Ok you lost me here "intermediate pinion caps in the case have been welded around"

I did send you a email yesterday morning and a PM last night if you didn't get them I'll resend. I ordered the service manual, waiting to hear back on the parts manual and the Operators manual I haven't ordered. Holding off on the Operators until I get the service. 

When I let the critters out I'll go up and see what I can find. Hopefully the bear didn't come visit again if they did, I won't have time to go up today and I am also heading to town today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 6:42am
Originally posted by JohnCO JohnCO wrote:

Ronnie, just for our enjoyment, would you post pictures of the skidder and one ton?  And thanks for all the pics you have posted, every entertaining!
John right now this is all I have of the GMC. I haven't ran the VIN to see what year it really is, just going by the date on the plates. The inside of the cab is burnt out and in the photo I cropped for better view. You can see the wood for the dump bed is burnt and whats left of the rear tires. It also appears to have the two speed rear end. 
If I go up today I'll take a photo of the skidder. Most of the engine is missing and the rear axle is nowhere to be found. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 7:47am
Late 60s early 70s GM ton and half(six lug) not quite a two ton truck. Cannot see if still has an engine in it, if 60s could have come with the old style V6 that was the Toroflow predecessor. back end got hot and cooked, cab looks decent enough for parts sales. Most likely a C5000 or 6000.

Edited by DMiller - 02 Dec 2018 at 7:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 8:10am
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Late 60s early 70s GM ton and half(six lug) not quite a two ton truck. Cannot see if still has an engine in it, if 60s could have come with the old style V6 that was the Toroflow predecessor. back end got hot and cooked, cab looks decent enough for parts sales. Most likely a C5000 or 6000.
It does have the incomplete engine. V8 carb is missing among other things. Probably full of water as well. Not sure what engine would have been in this but my best guess would be 454. 
I'll take a look at those models you mention. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 9:49am
Quick search shows no 454 option. It looks to be somewhere in the 60's according to the headlights. Someday I'll run the vin if it's still there.

So I thought I would just add this for fun. The actual road is no longer accessible. Story is they built a dam that washed/broke out shortly after the fire. So I have found old culverts that I am reinstalling to access the back half of my property. The creek runs year around and the soft soil is a high danger for getting stuck especially heavy equipment. Which apparently happened once when some thieves tried to recover the AC. They ran over the owners water line hence getting caught stuck in the mud literally.
- This obviously isn't precise but it's what I have been working on for the last two years
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 9:53am
Ronnie, Got the PM..didn't get the regular email. I'm sure the hour meter was removed. The dip stick is between the fuel pump and the starter...and probably covered with the wood rats house yet..pretty low in the block...if original it will have a pretty big loop for a handle. The intermediate pinion cap is behind the sprocket spokes...say at the 10 or 11 o'clock position looking at the sprocket...the case around the cap has been welded and reinforced ... common for that vintage 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 12:03pm
You are correct. Removed some sticks before pulling it out. Seems really watery/runny to me. Specially being its very cold and icy this morning. What weight oil do these use?
I tried smelling it but my nose wouldn't stay put long enough to get a good whiff. I thought I may have caught a scent of fuel, can't say for sure though. I also didn't notice any water/oil separation and I pulled it twice. It's just a tad overfilled :/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 1:18pm
I forgot to ask about the bushings. If you mean that stuff wrapped around a piece of steel that looks like a mouse chewed holes in, then yes they are there.
Seriously though they are done as well. I wasn't about to stick my fingers on cold icy steel, yes call me a girly man if you will lol. If I got stuck to one no one is around to help remove my fingers lol. So I physically looked at them and not much left of the outside layer. I am assuming thats the bushing. 
The link will require better inspection but nothing noticeably broken. I did notice that the inside of the links are in better shape than the outside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 3:02pm
"That photo of the lines looks like I am missing more the just one but my oil filler is back by the starter."

The filler is at the front on the grader engines.  You won't have the piping above the fuel pump either as it is the oil return from the supercharger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michale34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 9:01am
We had a gmc 6000 one time about that year model we got with some other parts trucks and logging stuff. It had a v6 in it . It was the only complete truck we got out of that bunch but the guys wife we bought the stuff from couldnt ever get a title . So dad made a winch truck out of it with a tow bar mounted to the front. We got 2 tree farmer skidders and a old log loader . They went to wolf lake il to a salvage yard .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 11:18am
Just looked again and the Budweiser just jumped out on the hood of the truck. Which says to me it must have been a set up as a tractor to pull a beverage distribution semi. That may help guessing how the truck was specked out new. That body style was 67 or 68 until 72.


  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonnieJones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 12:31pm
lol never seen that and I have been looking at it for two years. Great catch.

I did find the vin for it. One site says its 68-71 GMC truck with a V6. Engine was likely swapped for V8 but now I am also having my doubts. Next time I go up I'll look closer.

Any thoughts on what the oil looks like? It can only be one of two things. Water or fuel. I am hoping fuel. 
Is it possible to siphon the fluid out through the filler? I have plenty of 5gal buckets with lids I could put it in. That would show any water. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garlic Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 4:52pm

 

Within the last year, I spent some significant time, blind alleys and many mistakes doing exactly what you're getting ready to do with that PSB pump.  Mine was on an 11000 engine, but concepts would be nearly identical.

 
Mine had sat for at least thirty years with the fuel filters and supply lines removed, so I'm sure your experience will be similar to mine.
 
I posted lots of detail here on an old thread.  I think reading through that thread would be helpful, but when I looked, my linked, hosted pictures, which will be very helpful to you, have lost their links.
 
If you'll give me a few days to a week, I'll edit those posts and relink the pictures.  I think the thread might be very helpful.
 
I would caution you not to attempt to rotate the engine until you free up the pump or remove it to be freed up.  This is the voice of experience.  My approach resulted in having to find three donor pumps for parts and required much more advice and help from this forum because of what I didn't know and because I rotated the engine before removing or freeing the pump.
 
The thread is titled "An Auction for the Rest of Us" and you can find it through a search.
 
I'll come back here and post a notice and a link to that thread once I've updated those photo links.
 
Pete.
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