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rlrobinhood 
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Joined: 09 Nov 2015
Location: WY
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 Topic: Ground Driven vs PTO side delivery rake
Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 10:03pm |
Hi all,
I'm slowly building up my small acreage hay equipment and found an old AC PTO driven side delivery rake that is supposed to be in good shape, but not used for several years. What is something like this worth? Unfortunately this is all I have to go off it for now until I look at it on Sunday.
Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of PTO versus ground driven hay rakes?
Thanks in advance!!
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The Hooker
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Joined: 31 Mar 2016
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 12:41am |
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I cant comment as to the pto rakes value but nothing has been as reliable as my ground driven New Idea model 109. it reverses and does tedding as well. it must be 75 years old and it fits well in the equipment line up behind my WC. Just my 2c
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bradley6874
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 5:33am |
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The allis side delivery process take was reversible and did a nice job as a tedder as well as a rake
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ac160
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 5:46am |
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I can't say anything about pto rakes either. I like the New Holland 256 w/o dolly wheel for raking. I know it isn't orange, but it rakes better than the AC 77g.
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thendrix
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 5:51am |
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The advantage I see to pto vs ground driven is a constant basket speed independent of ground speed. If it's a 3pt pto driven with small wheels kinda like a NH 57 then it might not follow contours as well as a ground driven with larger wheels and a dolly wheel (if it has one)
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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victoryallis
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 6:46am |
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The best option is s rotary rake and they are all PTO if you settle for a bar rake then ground driven is better since the speed is always right. Goggle Miller Pro rotary rake.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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PaulB
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 6:51am |
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I have used one of the early AC PTO rakes for years. It works nice behind a CA with the live PTO. I didn't much like pulling it behind a B, 2nd gear seemed a bit slow and 3rd was way to fast.
Those old rakes were long and don't like rough ground. That's how the gear boxes were broken on most of them.Rough ground and the slip clutch over tightened. The one I have the gear box has two raking speeds so to better match the ground speed, Although I have always used the low speed. The reason I wanted to find one (other than it was the rake Allis designed to go with the Roto-Baler) was the one machine would both rake and ted. I think the value of them is mostly to collectors. With that being said most newer rakes are going for $1500 and up. Nice ones with the dolly wheels sell for more than I've paid for most of my tractors.
Edited by PaulB - 17 Jun 2016 at 1:29pm
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 7:35am |
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what tractor are you going to use to pull it? Dad bought a new pto rake in the late 40's or early 50's I used it over hundreds if not thousands of acres in the 60-70-80-90's. As stated they have a long basket and tend to drag on uneven ground. The skip clutch must be in working order but never grease it unless you want to fight it slipping the rest of the day. Mine went to a fellow in eastern Iowa when I bought a 256 New Holland. pulled it with a WD45 or D17. If your ground is uneven Live power is almost a must have with them.
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VFDfireman
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 9:09am |
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Pulled a ground driven JD rake for years with our WD45.
Big heavy windrows and ground driven rakes don't work too good as rake will slide.
If your hay is dry then they work great. The nice thing about a ground driven rake is that any tractor can pull it and if you hit something with it or have it adjusted wrong, it will just stop and not bust up a bunch of teeth.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 9:15am |
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I prefer a ground driven wheel rake. It has flexibility to handle rough ground and by its design it moves the hay to the side a bit slower than the forward speed. The drum type rake like the IH #5 I used to have kicks the hay at two or three times the ground speed, so it requires pulling it slowly to keep from knocking the leaves of fine hay like alfalfa. I'd dislike a PTO driven rake for the same reason unless its a very modern rake. The drum rakes came in a couple varieties, the fixed drum which is hardest on the hay and the very flexible drum with the end plates of the drum very tilted.
Gerald J.
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Longmeadow Farm
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 6:03pm |
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A ground driven NH side rake is considered a hay beater, notwithstanding any comments to the contrary. A PTO driven rake allows you to " feather" the speed relative to the need. I owned a JD 350 PTO side rake for may years and it performed to my expectation.... and if the ground speed and PTO speed were coordinated properly the hay wasn't beaten up. I now own a rotary rake and fully understand after years of experience that slow speed, pto that is ... is paramount to creating fluffy windows that will dry in the sun/wind. I have baled hay that was raked by a NH hay beater..and if it was raked a couple of times it became a rope. As a favor to my neighbor, I baled a number of NH rollabar raked hay acres over the years.. I never saw a more mangled, leafless bunch of hay...... what a mess. For all those New Holland side rake aficionados.. you need to get interested in reality...
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BillinAlberta
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 7:39pm |
Have used an Allis pto rake for about 10 years now. Works fine and with a spare as a parts machine it is cheap to keep running.I do use it to ted from time to time as well and again it works well. Run it with a d17 and set the rake gearbox in high then run the tractor at slow speed so it is relatively gentle. I would love to get a rotary rake but the cost is far too high for the 70 or so acres I do.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 8:06pm |
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What rake you'll like has a lot to do with the type of land you're working,I cut and bale a lot of smaller size fields with some very irregular terrain,stationary rock etc and I've tried different types of rakes and for me my New Holland 256 has worked better all around than any of them.
Plus the NH dealership has any part in stock I'll need.Never knew a rake could run so quiet until I got the New Holland old JD rake used to beat and bang no matter how hard I tried to get it to run smooth.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 11:25am |
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As far as rakes go, we have a "v" rake that is a wheel rake that is the main rake we use, because we use it to put 2 windows together all of the time before baling. But when it comes to flipping windows that have gotten rained on or something, there is not a rake that I'd rather use than the allis PTO rake. I originally bought it mostly because it was there, and it was allis chalmers. Never intended to use it. Neighbor finally spent about 2 years convincing me that we should try it out. Sure glad he did, because I sure use it a lot. Darrel
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Dan73
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Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 1:56pm |
 ac160 wrote:
I can't say anything about pto rakes either. I like the New Holland 256 w/o dolly wheel for raking. I know it isn't orange, but it rakes better than the AC 77g. |
I have the same nh rake it works great. As to the comment about winding the hay up i guess it does but that just keeps it feeding well into the baler. Actually I can leave the baler pickup a little high so it doesn't drive the teeth into the ground and it still picks up nice and clean. I don't see any trouble with it braking the leaves off my hay as others have clamed. We had a new idea rake about the same design when I was a kid. It didn't have a dolly wheel like my nh does. The dolly makes it a little harder to hook up as the toung is on the ground but you don't end up with a broken jack either. The jack in the new idea was always broken maybe that was poor help I don't know but I do remember as a kid it shucked to hook it up took two guys to lift it. We had one of those jd pinwheel rakes and that sucked to setup alway had trouble getting it to actually clean the field up.
Edited by Dan73 - 18 Jun 2016 at 1:56pm
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PaulB
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Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 4:16pm |
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Most any rake will do a good job if adjusted properly, The AC PTO rakes have a slide bar to adjust the tooth angle, and as mentioned it will do a great job of fluffing out a rained on windrow. On the same note most any rake will twist a rope if the teeth are not set correctly for the conditions. I have talked to some that never knew their hayrake (regardless of brand) had adjustment other than up and down. Just like any nitwit can hook to a plow and turn ground, but there are few these days that really have the ability to properly adjust a plow to do a good job and pull easily. As with everything these days there seems to be more emphasis on getting it done as fast as possible, than having pride in yourself of doing it properly
Edited by PaulB - 19 Jun 2016 at 3:26am
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 6:36pm |
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The Great Uncle's old Dearborn 3 point PTO rake must not be set right. I used it once long ago on some decent hay. Ran the tractor at an idle in 3rd gear and it beat the hay so bad I lost over half the leaves on the alfalfa. It also twisted the windrow into a rope so as soon as the baler pick-up got a hold, you could stop forward motion and wait for the baler to eat up 20 or 30 feet of windrow.
I've been thinking about digging it out and using it on some pasture grass I'd like to get off the ground.
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