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Gleaner M combine 301 engine

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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 9:24am
yep, looks like someone even punch marked 24. You're sitting about 4* BTDC in pic.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 9:26am
1# cylinder is closrs to the crank pully? Right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 9:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 10:24am
Is it right below the finger nail the punch u see at 24btdc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 12:48pm
yep, where the paint chips are. The long line is 25, each mark is 1*.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 5:10am
Sounds good. Ill update you guys this weekend.

Thanks again for all the help.

Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 3:26pm
Well, no luck. Wont run, and wont fire. Only fires on the starter fluid. Bled the lines and the injectors and everything. Talked to a friend of mine who works on diesels and he asked me if there is a key/pin hole for setting the timing on the flywheel. I saw nothing. Im puzzled, i put it right on those punch marks.

Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 3:46pm
If you are 180 degrees off (number 6 instead of number 1) that is what it will do. It will fire on ether and fill the shed with heavy diesel exhaust smoke and then die. If the injection pump isn't pumping fuel and fires on ether, there will be little smoke out the exhaust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 4:20pm
We timed the cylinder closes to the radiator/timing pulley. We took that cylinder to TDC, then moved it to the punch marks, then installed the pump with lines lined up. Just fires on the ether, never stays running.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 4:37pm
You may have been on TDC for #6 cylinder if the rocker arms on #1 weren't loose !!  You don't say if you have heavy smoke when it does fire on ether (or not).  Loosen the injector line nut on #6 and try and start it again to be sure you have all air bled out. Leave the other 5 injector line nuts tight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 4:48pm
sounds like it's timed to #6 just like Dr says. I was under the impression in original post that it ran, just smoked a little. If you've never had it fire since putting pump on, you are indeed 180* out of time. Line the pump marks up again, carefully slide the pump gear out enough to miss the other gears, turn engine 1 turn normal direction to the 24* mark again, and carefully slide shaft back into pump making sure it clicks into the splines and the notch correctly. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Gregc72deer Gregc72deer wrote:

We timed the cylinder closes to the radiator/timing pulley. We took that cylinder to TDC, then moved it to the punch marks, then installed the pump with lines lined up. Just fires on the ether, never stays running.
So just how did you determine that you were on #1 and not #6? As explained,you can only tell with the rocker cover off. When on #1, you have 2 loose rockers on #1 and 1 loose and 1 tight on # 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 5:37am
We timed the cylinder closes to the radiator/timing pulley. We took that cylinder to TDC, then moved it to the punch marks, then installed the pump with lines lined up. Just fires on the ether, never stays running.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 5:40am
I did take the rocker cover off and watched the springs on #1. As long as #1 is closes to the radiator on the pump side of the engine, but that what the consences was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 7:28am
In my opinion, the best way to determine you're on #1 cylinder is to pull that injector and put a plug or a finger in the injector hole. While turning engine clockwise looking from front, normal direction, when on compression stroke #1 you will have air blow out the plug or finger. That is the true indication it's coming up on the compression stroke, and not the exhaust stroke which is the case when you are 180* out of time. On a 4 cycle engine(which this is) the TDC mark will come up every turn, but since the camshaft turns half the speed of crankshaft, it determines which stroke each cylinder is on.  
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 8:27am
Ok.  I will do that.  Pull the injector and place my finger over the hole.  When its coming up, the air will push my finger out your saying right?  Once that happens Im at TDC right?  Then how do I rotate the engine to get to 24 BTDC from there.  Same direction the engine normally travels?  Thank you,
 
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 8:28am
And this is on the #1 cyclinder, closes to the radiator correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 8:36am
when air pushes finger out, that cylinder is coming up on compression, so stop at the 24* mark BEFORE top dead center (BTDC) which is where the pump needs timed. Air will hiss out that hole a long ways before the marks start coming in to view.  #1 cylinder is the front of the engine as if it was in a tractor, water pump end, timing gear end etc, that is the front, #1. Turn engine by hand with a wrench or socket and ratchet. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 11:47am
Ed,
 
Is removing the injector a hard job?  I have never done that before.
 
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 1:01pm
take off the return line, injection line, and then the 2 nuts or bolts holding the injector in. It may be tough to get out. Be careful prying. With the symptoms you have though, I'd forget the injector, and just move the pump gear like I mentioned above. You've got a 50/50 shot at timing it. It only smokes where it is now, so it is a good bet it's 180* out of time. No point making it any more difficult than it already has turned out to be. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 3:25pm
Thats what I will do. I wont play with the injector and time it off the springs. No use making more work. Ill let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2018 at 3:13pm
Well, i owe you guys! I was 180 off. I pulled the valve cover again, turned the engine over by hand and stopped 24 degrees BTDC. Put everything back together, cracked the lined to get the air out, and shot a small burst of ether in her. Fired up, smoked white smoke for 5 mins, 15 mins later could barely see the exhaust. Tons of response and power. Still has a little white smoke, but not bad. Would you suggest i rotate the pump or leave it? And if so, which was. Top of pump towards enging or away from engine? Again, thank you so much guys!

Greg. Lawton, MI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2018 at 3:36pm
My sheet shows 18 degrees for dcgfc627-10jt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2018 at 4:21pm
My pump ends in 10jt. My paperwork shows 24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2018 at 4:58pm
My Service Manual shows this:  Engines prior to s/n 2D-74971  have a DCGFC 627-10JT injection pump and are timed at 24 degrees BTDC.  THIS ASSUMES THAT THE INJECTION PUMP HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED or UPDATED TO THE NEWER STYLE ADVANCE.  If this happened, the pump should have been re-stamped or marked to be timed at 18 degrees BTDC instead.   Engines after s/n 2D- 74971 have a DCGFC 627-24JT injection pump and are timed at 18 degrees BTDC.  It always pays to line up the pump marks before pump removal to KNOW where it was and has been for many years. If you hadn't removed the driveshaft from the engine, you should have been able to slide the pump right back onto the shaft and would have got it right because of the alignment tang inside the splines.  As far as rotating the pump any ?? If the marks are aligned at 24 degrees BTDC that should be correct and leave it alone !!!   You will probably not be able to change it from 24 to 18 anyway without maybe having to move the drive gear one tooth. The general installation thing is this: from the Factory the pump was mounted somewhere near the center of the adjustment slots on the pump mounting flange. It is never full extreme one way or the other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregc72deer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2018 at 5:56pm
I for sure wish i would have lined the marks up before tear down. I will never do that again. Shes running really well. Lots of response and quick. No hesitation. Ill leave tje pump where its at. The holes are in the middle of the slots now. When my pump was rebuilt the tag said nothing about changing the timing. I think 24 is really close and my engine likes it. Thanks again

Greg
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