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wjohn 
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 Topic: Gleaner A/AII/C/CII Cylinder Belt vs. Chain Drive
Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 11:16am |
Almost every A/AII/C/CII combine I see out here in wheat country seems to have the belt drive cylinder setup, which gives you cylinder speeds of 800-1325 RPM. My CII is one of these. I would like to be able to do wheat, milo, oats, and soybeans.
To slow the cylinder speed below 800 RPM, you have to convert to a chain drive. If I did that, I'd probably get the 52 tooth cylinder driven sprocket for 425-715 RPM (soybeans), and the 28 tooth cylinder sprocket because it gives the same 800-1325 RPM range as the belt drive. Then I could just put the belt drive on the shelf as it would require changing the drive sheave/sprocket if I wanted to go back to it, which is a lot harder than just swapping the driven sprocket on the cylinder.
Any drawbacks to the chain drive other than having to lubricate the chain?
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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jiminnd
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Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 11:28am |
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I don't really have an answer but I changed mine on C2 for sunflower. Didn't think it was a big issue so I just switched back and forth. I did wheat and other stuff, sunflower was always last, then just changed back before the next harvest.
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1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 11:37am |
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Hi wJohn, Check your pm.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 9:57pm |
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How many acres you cover? Chain drive will run a long time if you keep it lubed up. Replace chain when it's getting worn and save the sprockets.
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EricFoster
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Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 12:38am |
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Yes, using lubricant can almost double the lifespan of a chain.
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ac hunter
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Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 7:29am |
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Our old Gleaner E had a chain drive for the cylinder and never caused any problems. Like everyone says, OIL.
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wjohn
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Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 10:01pm |
 jiminnd wrote:
I don't really have an answer but I changed mine on C2 for sunflower. Didn't think it was a big issue so I just switched back and forth. I did wheat and other stuff, sunflower was always last, then just changed back before the next harvest. |
So you don't think it's too bad to change over the drive pulley/sprocket that's behind the variable speed sheave? I should try getting that off first. I just figured it would be easiest to just change the cylinder sprocket back and forth.
What RPM did you run sunflowers at? We don't have much of a market this far south but I'd be curious to try some, as they do seem to grow well here.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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wjohn
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Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 10:33pm |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
How many acres you cover? Chain drive will run a long time if you keep it lubed up. Replace chain when it's getting worn and save the sprockets. |
I will only have about 20 acres a year for the near future, and maybe double that once I cleanup a couple little old fields that were left to turn into pasture by some past renters. I doubt I'd wear a chain out for a very long time, so there's probably no real advantage to longevity of the belt setup.
Looks like it's about $500 for the parts to convert to chain drive sprocket, chain, and sprockets to cover the two RPM ranges and a different feeder beater sprocket to make up for the slower cylinder speed.
Edited by wjohn - 04 Jan 2025 at 12:06pm
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 04 Jan 2025 at 9:04am |
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I’ve never owned a C or C2, but what’s to stop a person from going to a combine savage yard(local or far) & purchase a larger cyl pulley/belt off a F/F2,K/G etc??
Do they not all have the same 4 bolt cylinder flange mounting with the same double V drive belt, & flat spring idler arrangement???
Of course, each corresponding drive belt is different lengths per its pulley diameter.
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wjohn
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Posted: 04 Jan 2025 at 12:05pm |
That is a fair question. I don't have access to any Fs so I could check and see if any of those parts would fit. I can dig into the parts books for an F and compare to a CII. Here is what the belt drive setup looks like on a CII. You could go somewhat larger on the cylinder pulley before you got into the tailings auger.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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wjohn
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Posted: 04 Jan 2025 at 12:23pm |
I dug out an old F manual I recently got (thanks Den!) and it lists 3 different pulley sizes for the cylinder: 8.5" 1383-907 RPM 13" 908-596 RPM 20" 590-387 RPM
The pulley on my CII measures 16.5-17" or so depending on where you want to guess the effective diameter is for the belt centerline.
So, I can already tell that the Fs had a larger drive pulley diameter - they were doing about the same cylinder RPM with an 8.5" driven pulley that my CII is doing with a ~17" driven pulley. If a 20" pulley from an F would fit I could try it and figure out a new longer belt, but that wouldn't slow down my RPM very much from the existing 17". It would be that or see if the driven pulley from an F would also fit.
Worth a shot if I had a dead F sitting around in a fence row, but otherwise I'd probably be better off with the known working option of the CII chain drive w/ sprocket swaps?
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 04 Jan 2025 at 2:10pm |
wJohn, thanks for your photo. From photo I now understand that a C2 has a single groove cylinder drive belt. Was unaware of that. And,,, the C2's pivot shaft's cylinder drive pulley that mounts to the back side of the variable speed sheave assy is larger in diameter 14"? compared to 10.25"OD double groove F/K drive pulley. So is this cylinder drive pulley a 2 piece with a corresponding 2 piece chain sprocket? I mean, if not, then a single piece design would require the entire variable speed assy be removed from pivot shaft to change over from belt to chain - right? Or,,, I guess maybe the chain drive sprocket is already/also bolted in there??
Edited by AC7060IL - 04 Jan 2025 at 2:18pm
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wjohn
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Posted: 04 Jan 2025 at 3:02pm |
AC7060IL, I just figured out the F has a two groove pulley drive from looking at the parts catalog - so we are both learning and now on the same page. The CII does indeed have a one piece single groove pulley on the pivot shaft that is probably close to 14" or so in diameter, and the variable speed assembly has to first be removed to replace that pulley or a sprocket (one or the other can be installed at a given time). I don't think I can retrofit the F/K drive onto a CII.
That is why I think if I had to change to a chain drive in order to get any cylinder speeds below 800 RPM, I might as well just get the fast speed cylinder sprocket and then ditch the belt drive altogether. I could then leave the drive sprocket on the pivot shaft behind the variable speed assembly and never have to remove it or the variable speed assembly again. I'd just swap between 28T (fast speeds - same as my current belt drive setup) and ideally a 52T sprocket or similar for slow speeds. Might have to add or remove a chain link or two as well.
However, if I were able to make 800 RPM work for soybeans, chain drive wouldn't be necessary.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 04 Jan 2025 at 4:31pm |
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My A2 did 88A a yer for 19 yrs in corn and soys plus about 10 years will some acres in wheat with a chain. I think I replaced sprockets once. Point is,you won't have an issue with chain drive if you take care of it.
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jiminnd
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Posted: Yesterday at 8:46am |
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Been 45 years so don't remember exact, ran about 350 rpm, don't know tooth count. I did about 700 acres of small grain with the belt, then switched to chain and did about 300 of sunflower. If you are doing small acres I would try your chain idea.
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1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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bigal121892
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Posted: Yesterday at 9:24am |
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Uncle at one time had a John Deere 95, with a chain drive cylinder, it would handle slugs better, but if you did slug it, it was a lot more work to get the slug out. He also added a dripper to the chain, about two drips a minute, IIRC. Still preferred Dad's L.
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wjohn
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Posted: Yesterday at 10:06am |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
My A2 did 88A a yer for 19 yrs in corn and soys plus about 10 years will some acres in wheat with a chain. I think I replaced sprockets once. Point is,you won't have an issue with chain drive if you take care of it. |
Right, sounds like there's no way I'll wear it out if I keep it lubed up. Thanks!
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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wjohn
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Posted: Yesterday at 11:42am |
jiminnd wrote:
Been 45 years so don't remember exact, ran about 350 rpm, don't know tooth count. I did about 700 acres of small grain with the belt, then switched to chain and did about 300 of sunflower. If you are doing small acres I would try your chain idea. |
I am really starting to question some of the speeds listed in the CII manual - it says 800-1000 RPM for sunflowers:
What's really interesting is that a later F manual (SN 18501 & up) shows 400-600 RPM which is more in line with what you were running, and what everyone on the internet says. AC clearly changed the numbers as the font is entirely different for the sunflower speeds compared to the rest of the chart:
Looks like a 66 tooth cylinder sprocket would get you to 560-335 RPM. An 84 tooth would do 440-265 RPM. Thanks for sharing your experience! I see why you ran the belt as much as you could with 700 acres of use per year.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Ray54
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Posted: 19 hours 41 minutes ago at 6:29pm |
bigal121892 wrote:
Uncle at one time had a John Deere 95, with a chain drive cylinder, it would handle slugs better, but if you did slug it, it was a lot more work to get the slug out. He also added a dripper to the chain, about two drips a minute, IIRC. Still preferred Dad's L.
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I would think a L would be whale of improvement over a 95. I ran MH and MH2's for 8 years, for others. Then bought a  JD 95 H, what a step backwards. But I buy what I have had money to pay for.
Just run the chain on it John.  When you need more than one new chain every few years, time for a bigger combine anyway.
Edited by Ray54 - 19 hours 39 minutes ago at 6:31pm
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wjohn
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Posted: 4 hours 34 minutes ago at 9:36am |
Ray54 wrote:
Just run the chain on it John. When you need more than one new chain every few years, time for a bigger combine anyway. |
I think that's the plan now. The belt drive setup is too limited on these older models, so I might as well bite the bullet and buy the chain drive parts that will give me all the speed ranges I would ever need. Thanks for everyone's input!
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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