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getting the power to the ground

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alan-nj View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: oxford, nj
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    Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 6:07pm
now that fair season is winding down around here, looking to start a conversation on a topic that i'm sure many of you have thought about over the years......what's the best way to get the power to the ground?? 

 i'll offer up some of my recent experiences and i'm looking for input for what's worked best for you...

first, i have a well built up 1936 unstyled wc.  running 38 x 14.9 tires, rc rear, about 1800 rpm max with hitch as high and short as rules allow.  I've found that on hard dry tracks, i have a difficult time getting a bite on the track, especially in lower weight classes.  the tractor just wants to sit on top of the track and doesn't always want to get a grip.  kind of like driving a rear wheel drive car in the snow.  btw, i usually pull 3500, 4000, and 4500 when offered and when allowed multiple hooks. all of these have a speed limit of 3-4 mph, so i have to use first gear. 
here's 3 recent experiences...

1.  at this particular fair, where i've pulled for a number of years, the track is clay, but usually well packed and not dug up very well. its been my most vexing track.  hitch rules are 24 back, 18 high.  when i first started pulling here, it was with the first build on my wc, using  m &w pistons, running 12.4 x 28 tires.  i did very well.  as time went on, i rebuilt my wc two more times, getting larger each time.  also increased my tire size twice, going first to 14.9/28 then this year 14.9/38.  running about 7.5 lbs pressure.  as my motor and tires got bigger, i did worse and worse on this track.  just couldn't get a bite on the track. did a bit better in 4500, but still spun out way too early; tried keeping my rpms very low, but still wasn't a big help.

2. at fair track number two, i started pulling here last year.  they also have a monthly pull, which i sometimes attend.  this track is clay, usually can get a better bite, but still have issues.  hitch rules are 18 back, 20 high.  last year with my 28's, i usually won the 3500 and was 2nd or 3rd in 4500, the top 2 competitors were farmalls with 38's.  we were always within 3 ft of each other, but i could never grab first. (they don't have a 4000).  this year, with my 38's , i beat the farmalls by 10 - 30 ft, but i don't do as well in the 3500 class....at the fair pull, the best in the 3500 class pulled about 190 ft.....i spun out around 95 ft....just sat on top...finished very poorly.  went back and added a 1000 lbs for 4500....finished 2nd.  while i got smoked by a well built ollie 880 by 20 or 30 ft, i pulled 220 ft and was 20-30 ft ahead of the third place finisher...clearly, the extra weight gave me a much better bite on the track and allowed my power to work.

3.  at fair number 3 this week, it was a very sticky, biting clay power track.  did not have a 3500 or 4000 class, only pulled 4500.  25 tractors in the class.  i was to be number 20 in the pull order, so i was able to stand and watch the early competitors.  they were having a very difficult time getting the sled moving, spinning a lot, some only pulling 8 or 10 ft, some getting as far as 60 to 90 ft.  finally a well built 6 cylinder ollie went 228 ft., and a couple of others came close to 190.  when i finally got to hook, my power finally worked for me.....got a good bite, cruised down the track, came within 6 ft of the first place oliver and ended up finishing second.  front end finally came up at the end, and i spun out....still had a little power left.  finishing 2nd out of 25, against some very good tractors, including a few other 6 cylinders, made for a very good day.....especially since i was the smallest tractor in the class....had to hang 1300 lbs of weight.

clearly, as these and other experiences have shown, i do much better on biting power tracks.  so i'm looking for thoughts on getting power to the ground on dryer tracks.....changing tire size is not a practical option.....but looking at things like tire pressure, hitch settings, rpms, etc......what was worked best for you guys?  just looking to start a conversation.....
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bigcountry48 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigcountry48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 6:25pm
I'd let down to about 5 lbs tire pressure. The only problem doing that is you are getting somewhat close to the spin the tires off the rims psi. But the less air in the tire the more surface area you'll have and the farther you will go. Just my opinion hope it helps!
1950 B, 1952 pulling wd, and 1954 wd45
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BennyLumpkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BennyLumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 6:34pm
General rule is 1.5# of air per 1000# of overall weight. How do you place your weights? I pulled an identical track yesterday and I had 275 on the front and about 1025 on the rear and I was perfect. Front tires skimmed just off the ground and straght as could be. I have mid bars but try to only use those if my rears are full. Its lots of adjusting from there. I did last both classes yesterday because I'm underpowered. If I pull a sandy track I dominate.
Central PA Allis Express
1934 WC254
1945 WF
1945 WC135755
1951 WD68085
1953 WD45-150217
1957 WD45D-230744D
B110
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BennyLumpkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BennyLumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 6:35pm
And you and I are comparing apples to apples since we both pull WC's. Styled to Unstyled makes no real difference. Only difference is your front bolster is lighter. Unstyled ones were really light, styled a bit heavier and WD45 ones were almost twice the weight of yours.

Edited by BennyLumpkin - 24 Aug 2014 at 6:37pm
Central PA Allis Express
1934 WC254
1945 WF
1945 WC135755
1951 WD68085
1953 WD45-150217
1957 WD45D-230744D
B110
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Charlie175 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 7:00pm
My D17 with 16.9x28 does not do well at all unless the track is a sticky power track, then it excels and usually gets 1st or 2nd.
Hard pack or dry tracks I might as well give up.
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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XT in pa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XT in pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 8:06pm
Hay Alan what's up ??!!   What works around here on hard packed tracks is tall skinny sharp tires. At our fair pill it was just like that. I had some wore out 15.5x38 tires in 4500 2nd gear hi range. And I didn't even get to 125' with my 17. 5000lb class was a little bit better but not much. I kno these tires would be real good on and track but the one we had that night. Lol. The tires that pulled the best where skinny or real sharp ones.
190XT,D17and 7045
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pohlman249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pohlman249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 1:22am
Could you have a set of custom gears made for slightly higher then 1st and run less rpms. I know my wd did awesome with basically stock 201 and a set of 13.6 28 galaxy's unless it was a hard biting power track. Blacktop loose gravel or hard dry clay would be good examples..  if you are spinning out verses powering out would think you would need to weight up or gear up. Also 7.5 seams a bit high for such light pulling with the 38 inch rubber. What are your weight brackets set up like? Weights to the sides and out as far as the rules allow? Around hear we have the 3' rule. The more leverage you give the front weights the more they will do for you and more you will have to preload the rear. Mid brackets some times work better due to them adding to both rear traction and front hold down. 
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Big Orange View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Orange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 7:27am
 Using or building wider rims lays the tread down on the ground without dropping the air pressure, the lugs won't roll back as bad either.      
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IL-D17 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IL-D17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2014 at 3:57pm

Im no expert but I do fairly well on the track most of the time. I have found that there is not one single tire that excels on every track. Once you learn the tracks and what tire/cut combo works for each you may find youself with 3 or 4 sets of tires and wheels mounted and ready to go. Just from reading your initial post the first thing im thinking is your running too much weight up front for the hard slick tracks. Second thing I see is not enough tire psi for the hard slick tracks.

 
For the harslick tracks you speak of you want a sharp, hard as steel tire with plenty of air psi to keep the lugs standing tall and not rolling over.
 
I usually start at 4000 and pull up to 5500 and my tire psi varies from 12 to 16 psi depending on the weight class and track conditions.
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Chad S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chad S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 8:18pm
Maybe try going up on weight classes. I pull a WC also with 15.5 38 tires with stock rear end and around 300 cube engine at 10 percent over rpm. I started pulling in 3500 up to 4500 and once I got the hang of it the more weight I put on the better I did. Now I go up to 5500 and have only powered out a few times. Usually placed in the top 3.
36 WC,41 WC,53 WD45,57 D14,65 D21,68 XT,72 XT,81 7045
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