D-17 Diesel won't run

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   The crankshaft was replaced with a 262 gas crankshaft. The crankshaft has
the same part number as the diesel. The gear was not replaced (the gear
that came on the gas crankshaft was used) and the 
cam gear was then timed to the crankshaft gear. Are the timing marks 
enough different that the diesel will not start or run? This is the only 
thing that we can come up with after the engine was completely overhauled.
Thanks for your help. We are really scratching our heads on this one. 
compression is about 250 PSI.                                                                                   

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
Dean(IA) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NE Iowa Points: 424	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dean(IA) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D-17 Diesel won't run Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 4:59pm
	The crankshaft was replaced with a 262 gas crankshaft. The crankshaft has the same part number as the diesel. The gear was not replaced (the gear that came on the gas crankshaft was used) and the cam gear was then timed to the crankshaft gear. Are the timing marks enough different that the diesel will not start or run? This is the only thing that we can come up with after the engine was completely overhauled. Thanks for your help. We are really scratching our heads on this one. compression is about 250 PSI.

Sponsored Links

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4772	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 5:15pm
	is it smoking? 250 seems low for any diesel, but I dont know what 262's should be. Does it even try to fire on ether? good luck.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

Bryan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Illinois Points: 463	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bryan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 5:40pm
	I've been told the gas 262 crank is made of cast iron and the diesel 262 crank is made of steel. So, i dont know if the cast will hold up to the diesel pressure without breaking.

Dave H (NE) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Western NE Points: 285	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dave H (NE) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 7:23pm
	the crank and gears are the same on gas and diesel 262,s the compression should be 300 at 150 rpm cranking speed is your starter turning fast enough? are you getting fuel in the cylinders?

MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 8:33pm
	Most of the cam gears have 2 marks on them. I would say you are on the wrong mark or inj. pump is 180 degrees out of time. MACK

AndrewGubbels Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: nebraska Points: 1486	Post Options Post Reply Quote AndrewGubbels Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 8:41pm
	I agree with Mack if you have the system bled out very well and turning over good. Andrew
	Andrew Gubbels Gubbels Restoration

Gary(OR) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Oregon Points: 175	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gary(OR) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 11:37pm
	First question asked, and I'll repeat..does it smoke while cranking, indicating it's getting fuel ??? If so, I'd suggest giving the starter a break and give it a pull in high gear. If you've got smoke and it don't fire within about 10 sec of pulling, most likely a timing problem.... Edited by Gary(OR) - 14 Mar 2010 at 11:42pm

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4772	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2010 at 12:28pm
	sounds like it is 180 out of time to me. The pump timing marks need to be lined up when the #1 cylinder is coming up on compression 16 or 20 degrees btdc, depending on pump #. The pump may have been assembled incorrect also. look in the outlet port of pump for #1, with mark in window, you should see the discharge port line up at some point. If it doesnt, turn crank 1 turn, and then check it. hope this helps, Ed.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

Brian Jasper co. Ia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2010 at 1:04pm
	250 psi sounds low to me. Like Gary is asking, does it give any smoke in the exhaust at all while cranking? Cranking with the lines loose at an injector would tell if any fuel is coming through. I have a pair of 1000CCA batteries with two 02 gauge cables going to the starter in mine. I've done a bit of research on the D262. Bill at Sandy Lake was a big help. Mine had pistons hitting the head. It would start on it's own down into the upper 30's without being plugged in, no manifold heater, or any ether. I had it running once when it was -10. All it took was a very slight whiff of ether through the intake plug to fire right off. What we figured out is my block has been machined to fix counter bores and the pistons were standing too high which means I'll have to shave the pistons when I go back together. My pistons measured .060 above the deck. The old head gasket measured .055. According to the blue prints at AGCO, the pistons should not rise more than .029 or less than .002 above the deck. When I had the head redone, Ron at Arnold's Machine shop in Ankeny Ia said his book showed .040 for stand out. He also told me that he has built several D262's and used the .040 piston spec. When I brought my D17D home, it had been run out of fuel. When I put new filters in it, I used my shop vac with the hose in the blowing outlet to slightly pressurize the fuel tank. It only took 20-30 seconds with the line loose at the pump to get fuel. From there, it took off and ran with about 15 seconds of cranking. Ed could be right about being 180 off. I would at least expect some smoke out the exhaust if not a blubber or 2. How many pumps did it take to get that 250psi? If it did it in one pump, it is probably ok. If it took several pumps and maxed out at 250psi, I'd be concerned. Edited by Brian Jasper co. Ia - 15 Mar 2010 at 1:08pm
	"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4772	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Mar 2010 at 2:37pm
	He PM'd me, it is smoking black while cranking, and did try to run on ether. It is either 180 out, or marks on gears aren't lined up right. god luck, Ed.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!