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new engine for the KIA

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LouSWPA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: new engine for the KIA
    Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 6:10pm
just a heads up, my wife has a 2018 KIA Sportage. We always had the dealer do the maintenance while under warranty. Every time she took it to them for oil change, etc, they tried to sell extra maintenance packages. Finally, I took it in, and again they handed me a list of 'recommended' services totaling more than $1200! Coolant flush, injector flush, transmission flush, etc. I asked if they were factory required (I already knew the answer, I checked the owners manual) to which they replied no, but not doing them "could" violate the warranty! HUH? Well, the discussion went back and forth and finally, I politely told him I was not interested. His last remark stuck in my mind, 'if you don't get them done, it would make it tough for him to argue for an engine replacement should I ever need it!"?!?!?
I did not reply, I was tired of arguing.
2018 Sportage, 4 years old, 60,xxx miles. Sunday, on the way to church, w/o warning, the engine light came on, the oil lamp flickered a couple of times and then went  out, and it went to a limp home mode. OK, got it off the road, checked the oil......there was none on the stick! Had someone bring me oil, put 3.5 quarts in it to bring it to full level. Still would only go in limp mode, so drove it to dealer and left it, got a ride home.

Dealer informed me they was replacing the engine under warranty. However, they sort of implied had I had the 'recommended' injector cleaning to clear the carbon from the rings (every 15,000 miles)  this would not have happened. Stated the direct injection units carbon up the rings. 

Possibly this is true, I don't know, but if so, why is it NOT in the in the maintenance schedule in the owners manual?

I was told they had trouble with the 2018 engines, but I do not know that for a fact.
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 6:52pm
INTERNET.....The difference is how they atomize the fuel: direct injection uses very high pressure and is sprayed directly into the spark plug area to ignite. Port fuel injection uses heat from the valves to atomize the fuel before being ingested into the cylinder when the valve opens,” Kociba said.Nov 18, 2019
------------------

I say the dealer is full of CHIT..... PORT injection of the gas 
will dilute the crankcase PCV vapors ( oil) and not
 let it buildup on the valve stems... Direct Injection the gas 
goes right into the combustion chamber and therefore 
does not dilute the vapors, which can build up on the VALVES
... Never heard of buildup the RINGS due to DI... 
Does he know most DIESEL engines for the last 100 years 
are DIRECT INJECTION ?... I have a turbo charged  
FORD F150 with a GAS ENGINE and it has 100,000 miles
... NO PROBLEMS.


Edited by steve(ill) - 15 Mar 2023 at 6:54pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 6:58pm

Kia and Hyundai model engine problems

For several years, the Theta II engine has recorded many troubles. The complaints range from melted engine wire, smoke and burning odors from the engine, and issues with the anti-lock brake system. Many YouTube videos show these engines blowing up with low miles. These cases are evident even in Kia and Hyundai vehicles that have adhered to the specified maintenance cycles. 

Many Sonata and Optima owners have reported tapping and knocking engines even with regular oil changes and engine maintenance. Unfortunately, these vehicles have ended up with second or third owners who don’t know about the hidden secrets of these models. The good news is those with information about the free engine replacement may no longer have to pay hefty fees for engine repairs. Instead, the extended warranty will enable them to get new engines with better performance

Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 7:00pm
According to The Drive, the settled lawsuit for the class action case in 2021 offers 2011-2019 Kia and Hyundai owners a warranty extension that could translate to a free engine replacement. In recent years, thousands of consumers owning Kia and Hyundai models report engine breakdowns have become more common and cost thousands of dollars to repair.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dorix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 8:44pm
My mother in law has i believe 2016 Kia Sportage, it's got about 122000 miles on it. It's sitting at the garage waiting for a new engine, was doing same thing. Started using lots of oil and occasionally light would come on and than go into limp mode.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2023 at 6:59am
as if dealers don't make enough on selling new vehicles..... they 'upsell' on  fluid changes.
Marketplace did an expose years ago....most don't actually CHANGE the fluids..huge rippoff.

since most families have 2 cars, no free time, hubby doesn't 'turn wrenches', wife goes to dealer, gets hosed....dealer makes out like a bandit....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2023 at 11:21pm
Thanks Steve

Jay, I wouldn't say auto dealers are making big money lately. In fact, I suspect quite the opposite! They have had a rather tough couple of years, what with covid closings, and chip shortages. Over the last two years I have driven by many lots that had no vehicles to sell. Many of the smaller ones have folded up their tents and turned the lights off for good. It's getting better every day, but those that have survived have a lot of making up to do. 

That said, I keep a wary eye on them, they don't need to make it all up on me! LOL
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 6:50am
yes Lou the small 'preowned' aka USED car lot guys have taken a beating but ALL the local dealerships have lots full of $$$$ vehicles.
Saw a JEEP ad on TV, where they offer 25% off MSRP and you know they're making money.Hmm...$100K truck for $75K.....before 'dickering'? So if I'd bought at MSRP, they'd have made an EXTRA $25K !
I don't know what the 'margins' are today, but in 1978 I knew exactly the costs for all JEEP products, base vehicles and every option,opened my eyes as to why guys wanted to sell cars !
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 6:52am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

yes Lou the small 'preowned' aka USED car lot guys have taken a beating but ALL the local dealerships have lots full of $$$$ vehicles.
Saw a JEEP ad on TV, where they offer 25% off MSRP and you know they're making money.Hmm...$100K truck for $75K.....before 'dickering'? So if I'd bought at MSRP, they'd have made an EXTRA $25K !
I don't know what the 'margins' are today, but in 1978 I knew exactly the costs for all JEEP products, base vehicles and every option,opened my eyes as to why guys wanted to sell cars !
You mean, to make money?  Yes, that is the goal of business.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 7:24am
We're you born a smart-ass or aquire it over time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 7:52am
Kia and Hyundai 4cyl engines have been junk for years.  
I can't really believe carbon build up caused that. It is an issue with GDI engines
for carbon buildup and performance issues.
Induction cleaning is not BS. It does help along with fluid changes. I see it all the time in vehicles that adhere to it and those that don't. Big difference in both.

The only thing I can say is if you think you are getting hosed by the dealer or whatever fix it place you go to, stick with at least 5k oil change and check your f###ing in between that.
At least 3-4 times a week a car comes in running like chit and the check engine light is on. One of the first things is check the oil and 90% of the time there isn't any on the stick or some unidentifiable black chit. 8k on the oil change sticker if it has one. VVT codes, chain or upper end rattle.
Vehicle is probably pristine condition inside and out. Smells good, probably a female
driver or a girly guy.
What kind of magic would you like to pull out of my ass. Has to be something right.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 8:05am
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

We're you born a smart-ass or aquire it over time?
I was born with the innate skills and massive potential, and have perfected it as time went by.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboy520 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 10:01am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

ALL the local dealerships have lots full of $$$$ vehicles.


Not around here. Dealerships around here are half to 3/4 full with the used car lots being full to 3/4.
On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 10:10am
Seems I have had all oil changes done by dealer over last years instead of doing it myself , jusut wait for their service coupons of $19 or $25 service . On 2014 Jeep Cherokee after servicing I was driving home and all of a sudden oil lite comes on - tech put the cover on the filter housing and pinched the gasket and it pumped the oil out of engine through that leak . Towed back to dealership - said no damage as it had a auto shut down if oil pressure dropped to low .
  In 2015 Jeep Cherokee that replaced that vehicle later only upsell I got offered was changing air intake filter and cabin air filter ($100 parts and labor ) . I did those myself for $30 . Their 30 point safety check missed the worn brake lining on one rear brake and I had to replace rotors and rear pads at 30,000 miles . See I have some leakage on one rear strut so might need to replace them some day or it might be time to trade off for a new one but with 39,000 miles on a 2015 my driving isn't that much .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 11:28am
One of the vehicles we bought back around 2000, we had seen several vehicles of that model at various dealerships, and went to the one with the cheapest price, but ALSO came recommended by my dad as he'd had a good experience with a certain salesman.  We bought from him.  He explained, at least in our more rural area, that they didn't make their money on new cars.  He said, knock a few hundred off the price, people are happy and then come back to you for parts and service, then trade in the car for their next one.  The money comes from the parts, service, and then from the resale of the used car.  The dealership thrived on the long term relationship.  I suppose in a large city moving LOTS of numbers, new car sales would be more significant.  Piss someone off, and there's someone else to take their place.  Large volume dealerships can get their inventory for less cost too, upping their margins. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 9:51am
so what do you folks think of my Toyota that has a life time power train warranty with 1 year or 10,000 mile oil changes?  Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 10:08am
i think "MOST" engines from "MOST" companies will go 100,000 with normal maintenance. Everyone is going to have a FEW failures ... they will pay warranty on them from the profits..  KIA has a "SPECIAL DESIGN PROBLEM" that makes their failure rate several times higher than you would expect..

Life time Power train Warranty is  GREAT !!  10,000 mile oil change is pushing it, but they must have tested and know that 99.999% of the time, it works !!
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 12:19pm
Mobil oil advertises what, 10,000 miles or 1 year oil changes? Amazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 12:31pm
Like most warranties, the companies are rolling the dice on averages, and the fine print of the warranty. Most require that all receipts be kept and mileage recorded. Sure 10,000 mile intervals in pushing it, but remember that is under ‘ideal conditions’ any other than that requires more frequent changes. How many people keep all those receipts? Sure most car engines can easily last 100,000 miles, even being lackadaisical on service, after 100,000 you are on your own.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 12:32pm
I leave service work to local shop, they dispose of oil and filter, give me a decent rundown of needs, also order/install my tires on smaller machines.  I cannot perform any cheaper so is handy.  Dealer had 2017 Exploder until wife drove across fallen tree(6" diameter) end of Warranty so ended service agreement.

Likely will not ever go into another 'New' car, if do will be long after settled into retirement and quit doing my own thing, then will give in to Dealer services.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

yes Lou the small 'preowned' aka USED car lot guys have taken a beating but ALL the local dealerships have lots full of $$$$ vehicles.
Saw a JEEP ad on TV, where they offer 25% off MSRP and you know they're making money.Hmm...$100K truck for $75K.....before 'dickering'? So if I'd bought at MSRP, they'd have made an EXTRA $25K !
I don't know what the 'margins' are today, but in 1978 I knew exactly the costs for all JEEP products, base vehicles and every option,opened my eyes as to why guys wanted to sell cars !


Jay, I was referring to new car dealers. Yes, they are getting some inventory in now. But most had very limited inventory for quite a while due to the chip issue and covid closings. I am not defending them, nor maligning them, just stating the facts. And yes, in my opinion, the new ones are high, but the market will sort itself out eventually. Either they will sell for the 'high' price, or the prices will drop. But right now, it looks like they are selling. Maybe they are offering 25% off of MSRP where you are at, but I am not seeing that around here, and I have been to several dealers looking for a truck. Looks like I will be driving the one I have for another year or two.
But the bottom line is they either make up the losses they have experienced or go under. Their overhead did not go away when Biden shut them down, or when they could not get inventory to sell when we saw the chip debacle.


Edited by LouSWPA - 18 Mar 2023 at 12:44pm
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by fixer1958 fixer1958 wrote:

Kia and Hyundai 4cyl engines have been junk for years.  
I can't really believe carbon build up caused that. It is an issue with GDI engines
for carbon buildup and performance issues.
Induction cleaning is not BS. It does help along with fluid changes. I see it all the time in vehicles that adhere to it and those that don't. Big difference in both.
Maybe so, I cannot say one way or the other, all I have is antidotal evidence and the manufacturer's recommendation in the owner's manual. All maintenance was completed according to the service interval chart in the owner's manual, by the dealer. If the injector required cleaning, I assume the manufacturer would have indicated as much in the manual. 

The only thing I can say is if you think you are getting hosed by the dealer or whatever fix it place you go to, stick with at least 5k oil change and check your f###ing in between that. I didn't say I was hosed by the dealer, they are replacing the engine at their expense. My point was the dealer was trying to push a lot of services that was not required by the manufacturer, and was trying to convince me the failure was a result of not having the injectors cleaned! As far as checking the (f###ing) oil, maybe a good idea, but the bottom line is there is no way a modern engine should not be able to get between manufacturer recommended oil changes without consuming it's own oil! Even a 60,000 mile engine
At least 3-4 times a week a car comes in running like chit and the check engine light is on. One of the first things is check the oil and 90% of the time there isn't any on the stick or some unidentifiable black chit. 8k on the oil change sticker if it has one. VVT codes, chain or upper end rattle. All I can say about that is I have driven fleet vehicles all my adult life, the vehicles were managed by a fleet management company(s). We would get chastised if we got the oil changed before 10k miles, or later than 12k miles. To my knowledge, we never had an engine failure. And we generally put 80-100kmiles on them before replacing them. And we drove them like we stole them. So there is your experiences, and my experiences. Results may vary. Oh, and BTW, we never checked the oil between oil changes.
Vehicle is probably pristine condition inside and out. Smells good, probably a female
driver or a girly guy.
What kind of magic would you like to pull out of my ass. Has to be something right.


 
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 5:22pm
Things are changing Lou and not necessarily for the good.
Never saw some of the stuff to the degree I'm seeing now.
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