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7010 dual wheel install issues

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calico190xt68 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 7010 dual wheel install issues
    Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 9:21am
First, I got a set of duals and the 9 bolt hub clamps.  I want to install duals on my 7010 and it seems that I will have to move in the cast centers to get enough axle to install the clamps.  It seems that the most I can get will be about 7 inches of outside axle length if I move the wheel in about 4 inches.  Is that enough length of axle to install the hubs.   The tire will nearly be rubbing the cab if I move it 4 inches.  The clamps  appear to need about 6.5 inches to get all three clamps on the axle so this is tight. 

Second, I have the 2 piece wedge on my cast centers.  I read I only need to focus on the non-keyed part.  There is a gap of a 1/4 inch between the non-keyed wedge and the cast center so was going to put 1/4 inch stock steel in between wedge and cast center and then use grade 8 bolts to push the wedge out.  I was going Jack the tractor up to get tire off of the ground.  Seems I need to sand the paint off of the axle, soak with wd40 and possibly heat up wedge?  Seems like I read there is the need for 3 special pusher bolts but I don't see how I can use 3?  Maybe I have the model confused.  Anyway, any suggestions on how to tackle this cast center hub move?

See the picture below.  Thanks in advance.


 
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calico190xt68 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 11:58am
To add more research on tihis topic, I found that I need 7/8 inch bolts with a 12 Thread count versus the normal 9 or 14.  Why did they do that?  Looks like I have to get those jack bolts from Agco.  One further question though, assuming I get the non-keyed wedge out.  How easy is it to move the cast iron hub in 4 inches?  Is there anything holding the hub to the axle like a set screw or something like that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lynn Marshall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 1:25pm
You really only need to remove the wedge without the key. Have the keyed wedge on top before you take out the other wedge. I've got plenty of the pusher bolts if needed. They are an odd thread. Don't know why Allis used that thread pitch. And yes, you'll need all the axle you can get for axle duals. I also don't know why Allis couldn't have used a little bit longer standard axle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jiminnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 5:28pm
I had a 7030 with axle mount duals from new, move wheels in as far as possible, worked for me but I did break one of the u bolts on the dual hub once, probably a little too much stress but I did that once in about 8000 hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 6:45pm
You have Power adjust rims, after you get your hub moved in enough for the dual hub, you can shift the rim out a notch to get clearance on the cab. then you may need a hub spacer if you don't have enough offset on your dual rim center. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2021 at 8:41am
Thanks for the input guys.  I am getting a set of pusher bolts from Agco dealer to start this process.  If I wasn't in a hurry, I would buy those from you Lynn.  It does look like I can get an extra 2 inches by adjusting the Power adjust rims so that should be what I need.  I am hoping I don't need the hub spacer but will find out the hard way.  I am just hoping that wedge comes out without too much effort.  I am guessing that wedge is far easier to move than other setups like the 190xt I have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 8:53am
I tried using the jack bolts last night and had no luck.  I screwed them in until the taper hit the cast center.  I then kept screwing thinking they would push the wedge out, but instead they just started screwing into the 3/4 threads on the cast center.  I got concerned because I thought if the wedge isn't moving and I am still moving, then it has to be going into the 3/4 thread area.  So I stopped and backed one out.  It damaged the threads on the jack bolt.  Due to the thread damage, it was really hard to back out too.   6 foot cheater bar had to be used to get it out at a 1/4 turn at a time.

That wedge didn't appear to move at all.  Do I have to heat up the wedge now.  I tried the sledge hammer on the end of the axle and that didn't seem to do anything. 

Any other ideas?  I am not sure these jack bolts can be used again.  I hate to say what I paid for them. :-)

Here is a pic of my messed up jack bolt.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 9:02am
I bought a special "tap" 35 yrs ago to chase and oil those wedge threads before using the pusher bolts. Mainly to get all the rust and dirt out of them, but it sure saves the threads on the pusher bolts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote automaticdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 9:06am
What the Doc says and maybe you did but I have had to use 4 pusher bolts to break them loose ! Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 9:30am
The wedge threads were good when I first screwed the jack bolts in.  One was a little easier than the other but I didn't need a cheater bar.  I also lubricated them with wd45.  Once I hit that cast center with the taper, that's when it got hard because I was forcing a 12 TPI into  a 9 TPI, I guess.   I stopped because I thought I was doing damage to the 3/4 threads.  I screwed the original bolt back in just fine so I didn't damage the 3/4 threads for those bolts.  You can see by the picture that the threads are "squared" off a bit in the dark area.  I alternated between bolts 1/4 turn at a time too.

I guess I thought that the points of the jack bolts would hit something and either stop me from screwing or push the wedge out.  I didn't expect the jack bolts to screw into the cast center at all.  I almost wish I could cut those points off and then but 1/4 steel plate between wedge and cast iron center and then screw.  At least it wouldn't go into the cast center.

Not sure how I use 4 bolts unless I have to remove the keyed wedge too.  That seems even harder.  I only have two jack bolts so would have to get some more.  I didn't remove the other jack bolt, but it will take me forever to put this one back in.

It sounds like I just have to keep screwing until I break the 3/4 drive socket or the wedge comes out.  I just don't understand why it didn't bottom out.  So far, no one has confirmed heat?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 12:09pm
The points do the work. When they hit bottom, that's when sh&& happens. Keyway at 12 oclock straight up. Tire off the ground. Use FOUR jack bolts to get them broken loose. Then, retighten the keyway wedge first to bottom it back out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 1:42pm
makes me think the threaded area on yours are a little too long, the first few threads may need to be turned or ground off. I measured mine that I bought from AGCO 10 years ago, and the bullet point is roughly 2-3/4" long. Stick something in there to measure how deep it really is. If the threads are starting into the 3/4" threads, do not proceed! You will have a mess on your hands!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 2:41pm
Thanks everyone for the input.  Good idea on grinding down the first few threads.  Sounds like I need to get another set of jack bolts though to do all 4 at once.  I am going to measure everything and see what is up.  I knew I was going to have a mess if I kept going.  I might try the other side with current bolts to see how bad they are.   Like I said, the one bolt i took out, went in very easy until it hit the cast iron 3/4 threaded area.  So, I don't feel that those threads were bad to begin with.  It is getting expensive just to move these dang tires!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 4:17pm
Not out anything to try it with the 2. Just correct the length issue. I'd be trying that before going and buying 2 more. Try the other half and see if it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 7:46pm
Either that picture is incorrect or the pusher bolt is too SHORT !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 8:54pm
Don't forget the part about a BIG SLEDGE. You whack the end of axle with tire jacked off floor and bolts torqued up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 9:46pm
Thought I'd post this photo of the pusher bolts I use. My tractors are the larger 7XXX's so the wedges are different and I use 4. I tightened them all equally and at a point the wheel popped loose.
I was under the impression the bolts were different for the wedge style you have? Measure the depth of hole before threads and compare to your bolts? HTH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 10:14pm
The 7010 uses that same bolt four times one in each corner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 6:32am
I've had to take a rosebud torch and heat on the cast wheel around the wedges and it's worked but that was on a couple 200 tractors with the smaller one piece wedge. One 200 was years back at the Allis dealership I worked at and it took a lot of heat. Once a couple years ago on my own 200 with pressure on the bolts and not even enough heat to change the color of the paint I heard the wheel pop loose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 8:47am
I think I have gotten to the bottom of my troubles by looking at the above posted picture and doing my own measurements.  It seems my pusher bolt is simply too short.  I measured the bottom out of my hole with a screw driver and it was 4 3/4 inches.  I measured the distance from the edge of wedge to the cast iron center and it was 2 inches.  That leaves 2 3/4 inches.  I then measured the tapered part of my pusher bolt and it shows about 2 1/2 inches to the tip.  That means I am 1/4 inch short of hitting bottom.  That's why I started screwing into center cast and messed up the threads.  See my pic below.

I called Agco and they said they only sell this one model.  However, when I look at the above picture by plummer I see a full 2 3/4 inches although his point may be rounded off from use and started even longer.  Plummers bolt looks like an agco bolt and it is a full 7 inches whereas mine is 6 1/2?  As Ed said, I could grind down that next 1/4 inch or more but I screwed up the threads on the bolt.  I paid $50 per bolt from Agco but I understand they have sold for as much as $75 per bolt.  So, another farm repair failure but not entirely my fault.  I have found no one reporting on bolts being too short.  Am I the only lucky one?  Could have been worse.  I could have kept going and broke off the bolt. 

I am going to take advice and use all 4 at the same time, hopefully without heat, but maybe use heat in the end if all else fails.  I know heat is not good on cast iron.

Critter has offered me a custom set of 4 that has 3 inches of a taper so that should be good.  I have ordered a 7/8 inch - 12 tpi tap to help me clean up threads as Dr Allis suggested. 

It is going is be another week of waiting while I get the parts.  With the 3 inches of snow we had and more rain over the weekend, I can't do anything for awhile anyway.  I started on this dual project 3 months ago knowing it wasn't going to be easy.

Thanks for all of the help and the pictures.   See my bolt again.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 9:57am
Mine are only 6-1/2" overall long, yours aren't too short, just the tip is too short, they didn't turn down the threads up quite far enough. Find someone with a lathe and have them cut another 1/4"-3/8" of threads off. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 10:59am
Ed, you are right.  I will ask a buddy to fix those for me so that they are usable.  That would get rid of the bad threads too.  I can't return to AGCO.   I went ahead and ordered another set from critter on the forum here since I probably need 4 anyway by the way everyone described it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ryan(IN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 11:26am
The dealer you got them from needs to put a case into AGCO about the wrong bolts. They may have the wrong bolts in the bin or they have been made wrong. If no one tells them they will never know anything is wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 12:28pm
Ryan, they did not have them in stock at Laker Implement in Rushville, IN which is the dealer I use.  I took it that the bolts came out of a larger distribution center.  They arrived next day so I think they had to be close, maybe like Indianapolis.  I do hate to see someone else get stuck with the same problem though.  I will give them a heads up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2021 at 3:51pm
Make sure they actually file a case with AGCO too. I had problems with bad snapping roll flutes for my Hugger corn head and AGCO made sure to get me good ones ASAP so I assume there was a case filed with them. I took a video of the flutes cracking as I tightened the bolts and had the video sent to AGCO by my dealer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 1:47pm
I wanted to report back that I was successful in installing the duals over the weekend.  I purchased a set of custom made Jack Bolts from "Critter" here on the forum and they worked great.  They have a full 3 inches on the tapered part which is what you want.  So a big thanks to Critter who also convinced me to buy a 12 TPI tap.  I cleaned out all of the holes before putting the jack bolts into place.  One side came out super easy.  The other side got tight, then it went pop and then tire move inwards.  I cut a 2x6 by 3.25 inches as a stop block on the back side when I went to reinstall.  I did have to move the power adjust rim in by two holes to move the tire away from the cab and give me a full 8.25 inches to attach the hubs to the axle.  I cleaned, sanded and lubricated all parts before putting back.  AGCO dealer let me return the Jack Bolts I bought from them for a refund but not sure they filed a case report.  I made a video of the process that I will be editing and putting on my YouTube channel.  Thanks to all of those that jumped into help.  I was physically exhausted after screwing with wedge bolts, then hub bolts and then rim bolts!  I did use a front loader to help me position the rim/tire for attachment.  I wished I wasn't in such a hurry as it would have been a good time to paint everything.

Here is the final picture.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboy520 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 7:38am
Looks good and glad you got everything installed
On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 10:01am
I'm late to this post. Great that you have had success. To answer the question as to why 12 thread and not standard thread. I had a dozen or so pusher bolts made at a local threading (on farm old order Mennonite) shop who has helped me on other threads. 8 and 12 threads are common industrial threads. They are the same on all bolt diameters. 8 is normally found on structural steel. This is because NF does not have enough holding power and NC weakens the bolt. 12 thread is common from 1" dia and larger but not so common on 7/8". You got good advice. A tap is important to clean the wedge threads. I've have some that weren't moved in 50 years came loose without heat. Clean threads and oil the wedge, a 3/4" air impact gun, and when all torqued up, a crack on the end of the axle with a big sledge and the cast center moves. I used all four bolts. The pusher bolts push the cast center off the wedges. Wedges do not move on the axle in my experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 9:04pm
Thanks for the explanation.  That tap most certainly made the screwing of the jack bolts easier.  It was a lot of work anyway.  I also bought the duals, tires and hubs from a forum member at a very inexpensive price.  Without this forum, I probably wouldn't have tackled this and certainly wouldn't have had the knowledge, tools or parts.  I did notice that in both cases the cast centers moved inward and the wedges did not. 

Had rain so haven't tried them out yet.  Hopefully in a few days!
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