This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Temperamental starting WD

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
snowman(MI) View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Sand Lake, MI
Points: 357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Temperamental starting WD
    Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 7:19pm
Looking for ideas or opinions regarding some of the fun I have starting my WD.  6 volt positive ground with a distributor setup.  I can crank on the starter, pretty sure we have fuel ok, and if it does fire and go it takes off just as I'm letting off the starter.  Last fall I replaced points, condenser and coil with better quality parts as I know some of the condensers available are marginal at best.  Is most of my battery juice going to the starter and minimal to the coil, points and condenser?  It is just strange that it takes off on the tail end of letting off the starter.  Any ideas as to what to check are welcome.  Giving thought to an electronic ignition conversion kit with the hot 6v coil.  What is anyone,s experience with these conversion kits?
1950 WD, 1966 D-10 III, 1961 D-10 II, 1966 D-15 II Gas, A-C Minibike, 917 Hydro Mower, 917 Hydro Blower w/cab, West Michigan "Allis Express"
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
MACK View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2021 at 8:23pm
The conversion kits are good, but sounds like the advice might be stuck in distributor along with starter pulling too many amps.           MACK
Back to Top
truckerfarmer View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Location: Watertown, SD
Points: 3176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 5:08am
Have you tried starting it with the hand crank?
Looking at the past to see the future.
'53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer

Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it!
Back to Top
Boss Man View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Location: Greenleaf, WI
Points: 608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 6:02am
Clean all connections in the starter circuit. Are your cables big enough for 6V? I used 1/0 on my 6V systems. 1 ga is probably ok but the 8 ga from the auto parts store isn't. unless you fix the starter draw issue first the electronic ignition isnt going to work. How old and what type of wire are the plug wires? 

Edited by Boss Man - 17 Apr 2021 at 6:04am
Back to Top
Sugarmaker View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8166
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 7:18am
snowman, 
I have heard of that problem starting at the end of the cycle but cant remember what the root cause is. I better not say, but I will?? Was thinking electrical but might be valve timing too?? Those are not educated remarks, just shots in the dark. Someone like MACK or Dr. Allis should be able to solve that one for you. I might try adjusting the timing because its easy to do. (turning distributor after marking current location)
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 17 Apr 2021 at 7:18am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
Back to Top
Dusty MI View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Charlotte, Mi
Points: 5050
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 9:22am
Check and see how many volts at the 6 volt side of the ignition while the the starter is turning the engine over.

Dusty
917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
Back to Top
CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22807
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2021 at 10:06am
Leave the ignition switch off and jump 6 or 12 volts to your coil from a different source. Then crank on it. If it fires right up, you know the starter is sucking all available power from the ignition system. I've done this, then jerk off the secondary source and flip the ignition on while it's still winging over.
 Weak starter, poor connections, marginal battery, could all be contributing factors.
 I've had the same problem with my WC that has a good starter and all new cables with good connections. I bought a Pertronics "HOT" coil and it fired right up, then it sat over winter and the battery became the weak point. It's only 11 years old. I can't imagine why it shouldn't last 15 or 20 years Big smile
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 11502
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 7:04am
Could be either bad ground problems, connection issue, or the Armature goin' south in the Starter which is pulling most of the current from your Battery. That split second you let go of the Starter rod sends just enough current to energize the ignition circuit allowing the engine to fire. Installing an E.I. will not help the situation as Mack mentioned. The E.I. needs at least 4V's to fire off. Once you get the cranking circuit rectified, the ole' girl will probably fire right up! You can then install an E.I. if you want. They do work great. We sell a boat load of em'. Just make sure you have carbon core spark plug wires in place before you install the E.I.  A stray spike off a set of solid core plug wires can take the electronic module out. The Blaster coil is an optional thing. The E.I.'s are designed to work with the stock coils. Doesn't hurt thought to throw a little extra fire in the hole. Totally and option there. We have the E.I.'s in stock along with the correct spark plug wires. We also offer Starter and Generator services. In the Battery cable department for 6V systems, bigger can work out to be better, but 1 gauge is the norm for 6V systems.  HTH
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
Back to Top
snowman(MI) View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Sand Lake, MI
Points: 357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 7:14am
As for the wiring system on the tractor it is the original wiring as the tractor has always been kept inside.  I'm going to check out these suggestions and see if I can get to the root of the problem.  Going to check out my cutout switch as well.
1950 WD, 1966 D-10 III, 1961 D-10 II, 1966 D-15 II Gas, A-C Minibike, 917 Hydro Mower, 917 Hydro Blower w/cab, West Michigan "Allis Express"
Back to Top
AC720Man View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Shenandoah, Va
Points: 4605
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 7:33am
My WD is still 6V also. A few weeks ago I purchased new 1/0 wielding cable at a wielding shop and crimp battery connectors at my local Carquest store. I cleaned up the ground at the transmission and made sure the connection at the starter was clean. What a huge difference! She spins over like a 12 volt now and fires right up quickly. My battery is 3 years old now and I must say keeping a trickle charge on it over the winter was a big help also. Best $20 I have spent.
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
Back to Top
DaveKamp View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 9:31pm
As others have suggested, the problem here is that your engine is not getting spark WHILE the starter motor is cranking.

Silly trick-  Make about a 10 ft jumper wire with some 14ga wire and two good alligator clips.  Clip one to the body of the ignition coil, and the other to the battery's grounded post.  If the engine starts fine, your problem is either the ground STRAP, or sold connections at the distributor clamp, and between the engine and torque tube.  By bypassing the chassis ground, you have a suitable path for current flow from coil back to battery.

If that has no effect, apply the alligator clips to the ignition coil power terminal, and the other to the non-grounded BATTERY terminal, then hit the starter and see if it starts.  If so, then the issue is in the NON_GROUNDED battery cable, or from the battery terminal side, thorugh the ignition switch, to the coil.

Replacing the original mechanical ignition to electronic will likely help, but solving the actual problem (by locating the bad connection or resistive cable) will be much greater long-term value.

A stranded copper wire suffers the characteristic of 'capillary action'... it will draw moisture in liquid or humid form, up into the wire, and cause corrosion to occur without leaving much indication at either end.  To help FIND such corrosion, hold a wire between your hands, and gently flex the wire in one-inch increments.  When you get to a spot that's corroded inside, it'll feel 'crunchy' rather than 'bendy'.  When you find a 'crunchy' point, use a razor knife to cut the insulation in-line with the wire, spread it open, and you'll find fuzzy green contents where there should be lovely copper.  Once the copper has started to corrode, it's resistance rises substantially, and it doesn't take much resistance to cause problems at 6v.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
Back to Top
Ted J View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: La Crosse, WI
Points: 18657
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2021 at 9:56pm
1st, are you using a keyed switch to turn the starter over?  Or using the pull rod that was standard?
I had a keyed starter switch that was doing the same thing.  The problem was the switch traveled too far and didn't make contact for the running/start side.  When the key comes back just a pinch, it hits that other contact and bang, she fires up.  Try a different switch if that is what you have.
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum