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Woods Belly Mower Belt ??? |
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 5:41pm |
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I have a 1971 Mitsubishi R2500 with a 60-inch Woods Belly Mower, three blades.
I bought a brand-new 204" belt (I think I remember the length) last summer. I threaded and tensioned the belt properly and mowed the place half-a-dozen times with never a speck of trouble. I left everything as-is and parked it for the winter. I went out there a while ago, fired it up, put the PTO in gear, and the belt instantly derailed. I investigated everything and could not find a problem anywhere. I re-threaded the belt and tried again --- and again --- and again. I got the entire belt out in the sunshine and examined it closely; I could not see any reason for it not to be as good as brand-new. However, when I get the belt installed and rotate the big pulley that is on the PTO, no matter which direction I turn it, the belt almost instantly starts turning sideways in the pulley. Any ideas ? Thanks for reading and all help is appreciated. |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50626 |
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Gotta frozen spindle, or idler on the mower deck?
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4433 |
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Those Woods mowers need to have the belt wrapped and twisted EXACTLY as Woods says. They look right other ways, but won't work. The belt also needs to be very tight, what you think is TOO tight.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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It's tight as a guitar string now, but I will see if I can go a bit more. All pulleys/bearings are in excellent shape and plenty of Kendall Super Blu L427 One thing I am going to try that I haven't yet is to completely remove the belt and flip it over, so that it is heading in the opposite direction to what it was. Maybe sitting unused all winter it could have stretched a bit or even taken a "set". It was cutting like a new pair of scissors last fall. I will see if I can get the wife to man the big Crescent Wrench while I lay into the crow-bar and tighten the _____ out of it; I hope the crow-bar don't slip and me mash her nose or worse; she is hard enough to get to help as it is and that would put a stop to any future help for sure. |
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ac fleet
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2014 Location: Arrowsmith, ILL Points: 2217 |
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I fight these belts all the time and what I have found is that once they flop over---it's all over cept the shoutin!---they will never run right again -----nother new belt would cure it. Something about the woods design of this belt routing sucks. My buddy had one do that on his cub and he turned it every way possible with the same results.---put on another new belt and ran 4 years with no problem. I have one right now that turned on me 5 years ago,--I left it and tightened it up more and it is still cutting weeds. Another thing is to make sure the belt is long enough. You dont want the tightner pulleys any closer to the main drive than about half the slot. They need room to make that quarter twist and if belt is an inch or two too long they can turn. When you put them on, get the right twist on them and tighten fairly tight, don't need to go overboard. -----too tight will take out bearings, so reach a mid point and go with it. Turning the belt end for end is worth a try. When not in use for extended time, you gotta loosen the tension on the belt,--trust me!
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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That line there is real good advice and I will for certain check that out. If my current belt is a bit on the short side, I will get a longer one next time. Theoretically speaking, if my adjuster pulleys are right at the half-way point in the slots, how many inches extra belt length would put them farther down without becoming too long ? My reasoning is that each extra two-inches would lower the pulleys an inch, right ? Years ago, when I first got this outfit, I found and printed a genuine Woods belt routing diagram for the exact model that I have; the diagram places the twist on the tractor's right-hand side. The belt comes off the right side of the PTO pulley, 1/4-twist to get under the adjuster idler, the twist, then around the bottom of the center spindle pulley, around the left side spindle pulley, behind and through the center groove of the center pulley, across to the right spindle pulley and around it, back to the top groove of the center pulley, under the left side adjuster/idler, 1/4-twist, and over the top of the PTO pulley. When they manufacture V-belts, they splice them into a loop; it looks like somebody at the factory would get smart enough to make special belly-mower belts that had a negative twist already made in the loop, such that, once installed, there would be no twist. |
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fixer1958
Orange Level Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2435 |
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I got a 1320 Ford I use for my mowing tractor. 6' deck and ate a belt last year. Took a pic before I unraveled it. Couldn't really tell how it went. Have to take the gearbox off to get it on. 11' long. Took me 5 tries. Tried to get a description online and there is about 10 versions and none that I could see like mine. Dam fords. Have it because it was free, just had to put trans back together.
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Brian F(IL)
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paxton, IL Points: 2691 |
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On my CA with Woods L-306, I usually tighten the belt with the mower raised. The belt will tighten even further when you lower the deck. It may just be the geometry for my set-up, but it works.
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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Thanks for sharing that ! I have always just tightened the belt with the deck flat on the ground and had never given a thought to doing it with the deck raised; reason being, in order to be able to thread the belt around everything, the deck has to be as low as it can get and I always just went ahead with my tightening with no thought to raising the deck. Just sitting here envisioning it in my head, I believe my belt would loosen when the deck comes up and tighten when it goes down. I am definitely going to give it a try. |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50626 |
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THat brings to mind another thought. On a lift system, like this, there should be a spring loaded pivot arm idler, to take up the slack, on the belt, so that when you raise it, the spring takes the slap out of the belt. Check to make sure the idler arm isn't frozen, at the pivot point!
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 9680 |
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I never seen a spring loaded idler on one.
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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Same here; the only idlers on mine are the two adjustment idlers and they are stationary. |
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18727 |
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Nope, no spring loaded on mine either. On BOTH of em. I've had the belt on my L306 for about 10 years or so now and it's just fine. It is TIGHT! I used a railroad bar to pry with and made it TIGHT. I've never loosened them during the winter months and never had one turn on me yet. (knock on wood). I had one break on me when I first got the deck, but that was an old belt.
They can't make a belt with a twist already in it, as there are TWO twists in it when you put it on. Good luck and remember, TIGHT. |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50626 |
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Well I stand corrected... Maybe you could fab one up, and it might improve performance...
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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I let the thing - and myself - rest for a few days before fooling with it again.
The grass is now about belt-buckle high so I made one last attempt at getting it to mow. I drug the belt completely out from under there and made sure that I flipped it over so as to be running in the opposite direction. It did not like being turned over and kept trying to revert to it's original orientation, but I managed to keep it flipped while I wrapped it around all the pulleys. Once I got it around everything it was supposed to be around and not around anything it was not supposed to be, I muscled it back onto the big PTO pulley. At this point, the adjusters had not been messed with; it was at the same tightness that it had always been. Before today, whenever I hand-turned the big pulley in either direction, the belt instantly layed over sideways in the pulley and started to climb over the edge. Now, after my flipping the belt, I could turn it several revolutions in either direction and it stayed right where it was supposed to. I already started to feel better. I raised the deck and tightened the belt as much as my big long crow-bar and the purchase I had would allow; I gained about 3/4-inch farther down the slot than it had been. I fired it up and put the PTO in gear, fully expecting to see the belt roll off again --- it did not... I throttled the engine up to maximum RPM and still doing good. I put her into that belly-high grass and it was cutting like a new pair of scissors. The grass got really thick and almost choked out the 2-cylinder diesel, but the belt did not derail. At this point, I was feeling pretty good about the whole situation and then everything under me got real quiet. I looked down and there was the broken end of the belt. Oh well; I am used to frustrations and disappointments, and I have better things to do than mow stupid grass anyway. It gets on my neighbors' nerves a lot more than it does mine, but not yet enough that any of them mow it for me. I think I will see if I can find that old decrepit walker that used to be around here and make a big episode about using it to go to the mailbox; then it will look like I have good reason to let the grass grow. If it gets to be too much of a problem, I do have two big jugs of generic Round-UP and one of 2-4-D; one trip around everything with the 12-foot boom-spray and problem solved. |
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ac fleet
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2014 Location: Arrowsmith, ILL Points: 2217 |
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You had the belt too tight!---can't tighten them with bars---hand tight is plenty!---ALL of mine are hand tight only and do not come off or turn over.
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 9680 |
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And the grass was tooo high
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Dakota Dave
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3895 |
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I always tighten mine with a 24" crow bar. Lean on it a little and tighten the pulley down. It helps a lot if you run the pulley with the 1/2 twist as far down the slot as posiable. And use the one with A 1/4 twist to take up the rest. You can move the deck foward and aft at the mount points mines in the middle hole and I cut the back end off on the belt side I needed the clearance.
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18727 |
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Yep, the grass was WAY TOO HIGH!!!
These are finish mowers, not a bush hog or anything like that. Did you use a Kevlar belt? Here's what I use.... https://www.vbeltsupply.com/b245k-wrapped-kevlar-belt.html When I bought it 7 years ago, I paid $45.91 now it's $68.01. Quite a raise in 7 years... |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50626 |
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Try Vbelt guys, they are the cheapest I have found, and the stuff they sell is good quality... |
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Ted J
Orange Level Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18727 |
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Dave, there is something TERRIBLY WRONG with your URL above. Especially when I clicked on it and it came up with this.......
http://www.https.com//www.vbeltguys.com/ This is the REAL URL for the vbelt guys https://www.vbeltguys.com/ And besides, they don't have any of the Blue Kevlar Belts aka B245K Blue Kevlar Belt |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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Walker
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: oh Points: 8099 |
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One disfiguring accident and wives think it's some kind of a big deal.
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JoeO(C-MO)
Silver Level Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Location: 3rd Rock > Su Points: 132 |
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Rust or pitting on a pulley will tend to walk a belt off
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BuckSkin
Silver Level Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 308 |
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That may very well have contributed to my situation after sitting over a long humid winter. I am going to make it a point to fire the thing up and run the deck a bit every couple weeks and see if I don't fare better next spring. I guess the reason I never had the problem all those years before was that I always had some sort of catastrophic belt failure that declared mowing season over for the year and I would start the next year with a new belt; this may be the first time I ever parked it with a belt on it.
Taking your advice and also whoever said to get a longer belt, I have always used B204 belts; the new one I got is a B206. I put the right side adjuster-pulley to the bottom of it's slot and was able to tighten the left side to just below the half-way point. I believe I still have enough adjustment to go with a B207 the next time. That same tall grass has had however many days since I posted about the broken belt to get even higher. I raised the deck to it's highest point and knocked it down, then dropped it down to scalp-the-ground and ran over it again. I mowed that area and another before I had to quit; everything is now running slick as salt through a widder woman. I am glad that I posted about my situation as I have learned a few new tips that are proving beneficial. |
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