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O/T, But Where Did WFE Go?

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tbran View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2020 at 10:14am
IF I have been short or irritating with any responses, I sincerely apologize. We dealers and Agco do a poor job of public relations.   As stated there are lots of AC guys who read this site but never post- more in service and parts that one thinks. They email me and are sometimes miffed as they are working hard to preserve parts and service but find it increasingly hard to keep the level of service they desire.  There are lots of things behind the scene that the general public doesn't see.  Lots of frustration as well.  There are tough decisions - we ran into some white seat leaf springs that the company who built them went out of business.. To buy the stock the springs were made of - $12,350 plus a set up fee of ten grand. All for parts that sell 36 times a year.  Agco worked with a dealer and found a shop that could replicate  the part - it is being worked out.  This happens several times a month on parts. The man power and time is an investment in the millions for a framework to work on this - then the frustrating thing is a price is set and a deal struck for parts - then the word gets out on the net and the next thing AGCO sees is the vendor is back dooring parts to someone who has no overhead - and then sells at half what agco has put in the system.  Stuff happens.  Again, no company is perfect, especially my place and Agco - but there is always "the rest of the story " that never gets out - and those who do know just don't have the time to investigate and respond to all the platitudes and diatribes  posted here on an Orange heritage site - but then this IS the place when issues arise  that need addressing.  Hopefully all to the increased value of what we hold deere, I mean dear.......
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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FREEDGUY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2020 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Rhoadesy_65 Rhoadesy_65 wrote:

You can give AGCO all the hard time you want, but I think they do a good job of supplying parts to older tractors given they span the heritage of Allis, Oliver, MM, Massey, and White among others. I walked into the dealer in the spring and was able to get the hose that goes from air cleaner to carb on the D-19. I've heard AGCO gives dealers credit for new parts if they send any NOS parts they have left on the shelf in to AGCOs warehouses to be widely available. I have no problem with Green equipment but the local dealer doesnt have much interest in us smaller guys, rather deal with the guys that trade equipment every year. Not much to say for CNH tractors, but NH hay equipment has worked well for us. They want nearly 5k for new rolls to put in the 479 I paid $900 for though. 

I am in NO way bashing AGCO as far as supplying parts for multiple 30+ year old equipment,I can't believe what our local AGCO dealer; yes, we have one 22 miles away;can get us within a few days-if it's not in stock, but just can't understand why the ORANGE paint had to go away,. If it is a TM deal, can't the orange be "tinged" a little??
As far as my original post was more in reference as to where the White's went before being "scooped up" by the Agco takeover?Seems like there was nothing silver/red for several years but would still see Allis products in orange paint before the "green" tint became the "norm" for a few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisFreak MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2020 at 8:33pm
I strongly agree with you Tbran that AGCO is impressive when it comes to keeping parts available for the old lines, and I don't think anybody on this site can disagree with that. I just wish the company management would remember and respect one basic fact: if it wasn't for Allis-Chalmers, there would be no AGCO. Period.
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2020 at 12:10am
As I posted over a week ago, I went to the Colo Farm Show and the MF dealer is now also the Fendt dealer.  They had two on display, both 900 series.  Huge tractors with all the bells and whistles, and a price to match, $450,000 for a 490 hp tractor with duels all around, refrigerator in the cab and lots of other cool stuff that few of us would be able to afford or really want.  I was also surprised that there is a new dealer in northern Colorado selling D-F tractors, prices were maybe 15 to 20% less then other makes of the same size.


Edited by JohnCO - 06 Feb 2020 at 12:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2020 at 7:13am
D-F tractors?

Anyhow, I know there are a lot of good people working at AGCO and a lot of good dealers doing their best but I think AGCO at the top has little respect for the American farmer when they came with the excuse that they needed to reduce down to two brands so the most popular brand in the US, AGCO Allis, had to go because having 3 paint colors was too expensive. That is a story that I'll never swallow. Here is why, because at the that same time period AGCO was introducing more and more brands and you could get a Valtra in any color you wanted....... except orange. Now I know when I go to an auto paint store red is usually the highest priced paint, I'd like to hear an argument that it isn't, and AGCO has sooooo many brands and soooooo many different colors of equipment, so explain again why AGCO Allis had to go? I mean really let me hear why. Not why it shouldn't matter because it's the same tractor, not why I'm too small to matter, and especially I don't want to be told how I'm not loyal to my dealer, I am. I still own nearly all AGCO supported products but I'm driving further and further for parts.

I feel bad for my local dealers to see what AGCO has done to them. Forcing them to sell a red headed stepchild where there is no interest in Massey. Not even giving them a chance at becoming a Challenger dealer, which at least had some appeal because of it's former ties to Cat, all because one very big organization in our state claims all rights to sell Challenger. This big dealer network focuses on construction equipment is killing the market for Challenger because they are used to construction work hours and so because of that and the distance for most to travel to a Challenger dealer there are few Challengers are sold. And my dealer can't get a contract to sell Challenger because of some deal between this big outfit and AGCO. If it weren't for Gleaner my local dealers, I am certain, would be gone, relegated to independent repair shops or lawn and garden sales at best. Allis Chalmers may be responsible for bringing down Allis Chalmers but who is responsible for my local dealers struggling for the past 20 years? Certainly not Allis Chalmers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhoadesy_65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2020 at 8:21am
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

D-F tractors?

Deutz-Fahr. Ik there is a dealer in ohio (Sutter Bros?). They are trying to make a presence again in the US since the Duetz-Allis days. From what I hear they are cheaper than a FENDT but still one of those Euro-style deals. Not sure if they are catching on or not Im not close enough to that dealer to see any. Our local AGCO dealer (15 minutes up the road) also sells New Holland tractors. They have sold quite a few Masseys and gleaner combines. They have always sold a lot of gleaners but I think Massey sales are going up. 
Farmin' with 1981 7010 PD, Great Grandpas 1947 Farmall H, JD 7000 planter, JD model B drill, NH 316 Baler, NH 1411 Discbine ,JD 100 8 Shank Chisel. Darke County OH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daehler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2020 at 10:01am
Equipment color gets to be a big deal when it comes to a farms heritage. It creates high emotions when owners of orange paint feel like they got stepped on when it was discontinued. For example, grandpa bought his first tractor in 1934. It was a orange one and we have been that ever since. Its been my farms heritage of running the orange paint, its hard to explain but its a connection through the years gone by. Its humble pride of being able to run a brand or color for almost a century. I have the same feeling for the New Holland hay equipment. I could go buy a Case machine thats almost identical but it wouldn't be the same as owning a New Holland branded and painted machine.
I dont know if any of this makes sense to anyone but it gives some reasoning to all the emotion that gets posted in some of these threads.
8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisFreak MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 6:20am
Originally posted by Daehler Daehler wrote:

Equipment color gets to be a big deal when it comes to a farms heritage. It creates high emotions when owners of orange paint feel like they got stepped on when it was discontinued. For example, grandpa bought his first tractor in 1934. It was a orange one and we have been that ever since. Its been my farms heritage of running the orange paint, its hard to explain but its a connection through the years gone by. Its humble pride of being able to run a brand or color for almost a century. I have the same feeling for the New Holland hay equipment. I could go buy a Case machine thats almost identical but it wouldn't be the same as owning a New Holland branded and painted machine.
I dont know if any of this makes sense to anyone but it gives some reasoning to all the emotion that gets posted in some of these threads.

Daehler, I think you nailed it.
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 7:17am
Originally posted by JohnCO JohnCO wrote:

As I posted over a week ago, I went to the Colo Farm Show and the MF dealer is now also the Fendt dealer.  They had two on display, both 900 series.  Huge tractors with all the bells and whistles, and a price to match, $450,000 for a 490 hp tractor with duels all around, refrigerator in the cab and lots of other cool stuff that few of us would be able to afford or really want.  I was also surprised that there is a new dealer in northern Colorado selling D-F tractors, prices were maybe 15 to 20% less then other makes of the same size.

Hey John, what does Prospect Impl sell now days? Their former branch store Hammonds still around? What they sell? When I was at Prospect in the 89-93 span, they were having trouble getting along, and I'd heard after I moved to IL, they split them up completely. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 7:45pm

Was at the farm show in NC the past 2 days, this brought back a lot of bad feelings. They are still in business and are trying to make a comeback in the USA. Grrrrrrr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisFreak MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 8:04pm
By the looks of all that screen on the hood they must still run that air cooled diesel. That color just made me spit up a little.
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 8:29pm
Pretty sure air-cooled has been dead for 20 yrs now. The could never meet exhaust emissions with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cottonpatch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by AC720Man AC720Man wrote:


Was at the farm show in NC the past 2 days, this brought back a lot of bad feelings. They are still in business and are trying to make a comeback in the USA. Grrrrrrr


It’s a SAME with deutz engine, liquid cooled Italian made tractor. Motor is German of course. Dealer proximal to me is now carrying them. I’d rather have a Massey personally....Sisu engine coupled to a Dyna4 transmission is good stuff.
'52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2020 at 11:57pm
Ed, Hammonds are long gone, I'd forgotten about them until you mentioned it.  Prospect is now run by Tim Altergott although I see his dad, Don,there most every time I stop in.  Tim's Grandsons Justin and Jared Ewing are now working there.  I haven't stopped in in over a year but stopped in front of the store after hours last September to tighten up the chains on a hay rake I was hauling.  Tim drove out and waved.
The lot is filled with lots of red tractors now, MF's.  They are still Versatile dealers and had a couple on the lot.  Also sell Sunflower, McDon, Crustbuster, Great Plains drills,and Rhino mowers.  I need to go out there soon and get some new plow shears for my IHC 642 spinner plow as they have a great selection of plow parts.  Even had some that fit my AC 3 bottom spinner.  Can't find moldboards for AC's anymore though.  They still stock a lot of Oliver parts, must have a deal with AGCO for parts.  Need to see if they have parts for my MM 670 ampha torque unit.  You can check them out at prospectimplement.com  BTW, I need to send you the injector pump from my 190 XT with the broken drive shaft, along with the injectors for repair.


Edited by JohnCO - 08 Feb 2020 at 12:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 8:55am
Tim was in my class in high school. He never really wanted to be a tractor guy, but honestly I think he has probably made a great living at it. Donnie has to be close to 90?? His dad Carl lived into his 90's, he would come down on occasion, when I worked there. I wonder how they like selling the MF tractors, when they used to really dislike them lol! I'm betting you mean Donnie's grandsons? Tim wouldn't be old enough to have grandkids at a working age. Tim was always a really nice guy!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 10:03am
yeah, lots of mergers in Europe just like here.  SLH was SAME, Lambardini, Hurlimann . Then after SAME broke ties with Agco - they merged/bought whatever into Same/Deutz-Fahr...  Bringing back the Fahr part. 
Same built some neat looking engines, but never the serviceability or quality of Deutz IMHO.   ( you could pull a piston out of a Deutz w/o pulling pan - not so with SAME)
Side note -
While we were struggling with the Deutz-Allis tractors went to Louisville NFMS and met Bob MCelrath who was the tractor marketing manage for tractors at the time.  He took me to the SAME display and we meet with the Italian rep for them.  They had 1. an orange tractor - 2.  a tranny with plenty of speeds 3. a syncro-shuttle 4. some good looking cab tractors over 100 hp 5. a competitive price and SIX promises of a power shift from 80 hp up - all kinds of new technology - and higher hp units to come.  Now it wasn't perfect, but the promises were exciting.  We went back and sat down with James Seaver (agco founder) and did a sales pitch on him to save us from the pea green - non selling - units.  The readers digest version is the Agco_Allis orange tractors.  We got the tractors in - and found out they were not truthful in their long term promises.  We sold over 200 of the SAMEs.  The 4600's were ok the 5600 's were really good. The early 6600 were horrible except the 6690 non cabs which we never ran a warranty claim on. The first tractors they shipped us were rejects and non - updated units they had setting around.  They denied it but when we fussed at Jim Peterson about the specs - he dug out the orders and found the narrow 18" tires were not what he ordered.  Sherwood Wheeler finally stripped out a wiring harness, figured out what was wrong and too light (Europe uses no air conditioners) and went to Treviglio Italy to straighten them out. The updated versions were 99% better - but they were at the end of the relationship and few came over . Also at this time many dealers had given up trying to sell them anyway.
The electronic govern'd 8600 s were new and customers didn't accept this technology that we ahead of the market - deere should have had one first - ha.
Every first units sold were taken back and reworked and the customers were given new units at little or no cost!  I think a few Agco guys went over and did the mafia impersonation to the SLH guys.. anyway we took all the change outs we could get - did the updates on some and had a low hour unit with warranty at a super price - and they sold... some dealers hated them - we were willing to put up with the issues and fix them - and still have almost all we sold still running performing well - but it was a miserable journey.  The power shift never came as the high hp units.  Who was it that said trust but verify .... we should have verified what we were getting.      


Edited by tbran - 08 Feb 2020 at 10:06am
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 1:15pm
Deutz is still in the game, heard they are nice but one question - why are they so short? Ac 8000 were the same in my opinion, short machines in 4 whl drive ? I guess turning, but it just seemed odd
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