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Wd45 Pto troubles

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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 2:56pm
Tim,
 I was speaking of the shims in the hand clutch. I think we have a couple shim topics going on at the same time.
Good to know those paper shims are still available too!
 I just spoke with Brenda at Sandy Lake today! Good folks there!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 10:19pm
So, I got all the parts yesterday and I've been working on getting the intermediate gear out. I got it slide about 1" into the hydraulic pump chamber. It's to the point where I cant reach it with a punch anymore to drive it through. I'm trying to use the gear as a slide hammer as described above but the shaft will not move when I do that. Any Suggestions?
WD45
IH Cub Cadet 149,1650,1250
#2 Cart, IH#2 Tiller
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 8:44am
You have the hydraulic pump removed from the tractor, right ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 10:06am
Yes
WD45
IH Cub Cadet 149,1650,1250
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 10:50am
Been too long ago to remember process but if you need to push shaft and its inside gear,you have to come up with some spacer of sorts to place on shaft then push it. It's not rocket science. You will have fun keeping washer in place that's hiding behind gear. Dry everything off and use sticky gun grease to hold it....could take a few tries....

Edited by SteveM C/IL - 09 Jan 2020 at 10:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 10:54am
Allis Wd45,
 Ok I have forgot most of the assembly/ diss assembly on those gears. Guess i blocked it out of my mind?
The shaft has to slide through the gears and collars. The big end of the shaft is opposite the large gear and the shaft has to move the big end out first. Correct? You should be able to tap on the small end of the shaft just below the hand clutch assembly?
If this doesnt make sence I could be looking at it wrong. This is the point where I would call Don (MO)!:)
Glad you got the parts and I hope your in a warm shop too!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 12:05pm
Correct, the big end of the shaft slides out first. But with the hand clutch still in the tractor you can’t get at the end of the shaft to tap it through. It is in a shop it hasn’t been that cold really but I do have a kerosene space heater if I need it.

Edited by Allis Wd45 - 09 Jan 2020 at 12:06pm
WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu(ON) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 12:49pm
You probably have the back end of the shaft out of its recess.  Reach in from the bottom opening where the PTO drop box was and lift up the intermediate gear with your left hand.  At the same time, use a channel-lock or battery pliers to increase your purchase on the front end of the shaft as you pull it out.  You will either have to get in there and manipulate this yourself, or get a helper to handle one end of the shaft for you.  There is a lot of weight hanging on the back of the shaft.  You will have to manipulate that weight while giving a firm pull on the front end.
You will get this with perseverance, as have many others of us. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 5:53pm
Stu, I haven't tried the pliers method yet, I was afraid of chewing the shaft up with the pliers. I'll give that a try.
WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu(ON) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 6:34pm
I do not think that you will easily mar that shaft.  But, if you did, a file would quickly remove any protrusions.  Your first job is to remove it.  The shaft is double-indexed for orientation.  There is the dimple and there is the flat side on the rear end of the shaft.  If you are able to get a grip on the front end of the shaft and turn it, you know that you are free of the rear recess.  You have already moved it forward by tapping on the punch.  The rest is just likely work and patience.  Some do come harder than others.  Try rotating the shaft with pliers.  If it turns, you have another means of working it loose.
Some work here can save a lot of work later.  Don't worry about scars on the shaft; the set screw is what will keep it in place when you rebuild.  Use your imagination and get in there and get rough if you have to.  You are working with WWII technology and it tolerates rough handling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 6:41pm
Allis Wd45,
 Sounds like good advice from stu! I was thinking that maybe the shaft had some damaged due to the failure?? I have only done one and its shaft slid out pretty easy, and I did have the hand clutch out.
 Now getting it back it with all the parts in place makes you hold your mouth just right and stand one one foot too!
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2020 at 3:51pm
I've been working on other projects and now have came back to the WD45, I still have no sucess getting that intermediate gear out. I have the shaft moved about 3/4" into the hydraulic compartment. I was able to pry it forward using a pry bar on the front side of the intermediate gear. But I can't reach it with the pry bar anymore. I have tried grabbing it from the hydraulic compartment and it's tight there is no movement in that shaft at all. Any other ideas? I really don't want to have to split the tractor.
WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2020 at 4:43pm
Wish I was the expert on these have been in there but I had mine all apart when I did it and got through it. Maybe Mack or the Dr. will be along. 
You know that the shaft may have been damaged during this event also. Just a guess. Might cause the shaft to have a burr? Have you reviewed the service manual and or called maybe Sandy Lake if Bill is still there? Someone said he retired? 
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NE GA Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2020 at 4:48pm
Is there enough space in the hand clutch compartment to put a clean socket up against the small end of the shaft and pry against it? Been too long since I messed with those gears and bearings to remember. Unfortunately as well, I had my tractor split apart when I did it though. Don't remember it being too difficult but like I said the tractor was split apart.

Also would be a very good idea to make sure that the 6 bolts that hold the hand clutch together are tight. You don't want all this work to be messed up if a bolt comes loose and falls out. I got a WD once that one entire side of the flange on the torque tube where the pto bolts to was blown off. The only thing that I could think of that could do that much damage to the casting was if one of those bolts fell down into the gears causing catastrophe. When I disassembled the tractor there was a bolt missing off the hand clutch.
Keeping Allis alive with:
2 B’s, 1 C, 6 CA’s, 2 WD’s,
1 WD45, 3 D15D’s, 1 D17

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2020 at 11:36pm
There isn't enough room to pry against the shaft with the hand clutch in there.If it comes down to it I can split it, just wasn't wanting to if I could fix it without splitting the tractor.
WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 10:44am
All your work should be through the bottom dealing with shaft and gear. Hand clutch is not in the way. Last time I had more trouble with mine than years before. I ended up making half moon spacers(more like 1/3 moon and maybe 1/8in thick?) the width it took to slip on shaft after prying gear fwd ( seems like 1/4 in ).Spacer pushed on edge of large dia of shaft when prying gear fwd. Install next spacer and pry. Think it took 3 spacers but it's been a few years. Removal is ALL FROM THE BOTTOM!!!

Edited by SteveM C/IL - 19 Apr 2020 at 11:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu(ON) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 2:14pm
I got a notification that this thread came back to life.  Don't know that I can add much, but I want to ask SteveM about his method, to see if I can picture it.
SteveM, do I understand correctly that you were working on your back and going up from underneath?  If so, then was your pry point on the front (end of tractor) on the intermediate gear?  Did you find that as the shaft crept forward, it left a space in the cast housing bore that allowed you to insert 1/3 moon thin spacers that allowed you to fit a pry between the washer (or spacer) of the gear and actually pry into the bore via the spacer?

It was a very long time ago that I did this job, and mine came relatively easy, so I did not use the opportunity to see if pry space was created.  It is hard to create a picture with words, but if I can picture what you did, Allis Wd45 likely can too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 8:29pm
You got it. The front of shaft is larger diameter and protrudes past bore. Remove lock and pry gear fwd. Now you have room to insert spacer between shaft head and washer. Pry gear again. Repeat. You keep pushing shaft fwd. First one I did slid easy by hand. This one took a while. Removing frame rail is waste of time. You can force pump rollers by top of hsg. To install easy flatten some 1/8in wire/nail,push roller against the body and insert nail in edge of lever by pivot. When back in the hole pull nails out of levers. My dad apparently never knew the nail trick because he had a piece of bent tin he put over gasket and forced the pump back in. He worked on a bunch over the yrs.

Edited by SteveM C/IL - 19 Apr 2020 at 8:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu(ON) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 8:57pm
Let's see if I can do this from an old pic.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 9:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Wd45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020 at 1:17am
Steve, i just saw your reply my uncle stopped by tonight and I had him take a look. Did exactly as you said and with 3 spacers made out of a piece of pipe it slid right out. Thanks a bunch guys now to get it all lined up and back in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil48ACWC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020 at 6:03am
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