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WC Unstyled 12Bolt Head

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shaverjeff View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Dec 2018 at 10:45am
I'm having trouble locating a replacement gasket for an early style (12bolt) head.
So far everything I can find through the usual suspects is 15 bolt only.

Does any one know of a source for these earlier style head gaskets?

Thanks in advance.
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Alvin M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alvin M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2018 at 1:19pm
Reliance special order 
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2018 at 9:01pm
Why not use the 15 bolt gasket?     MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2018 at 10:05pm
15 bolt should do just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 5:50pm
I had the same idea, I ordered a 15 bolt, but they are different.
The water jacket holes didn't line up quite right and they were really small.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 5:58pm
The water jackets towards the bottom are completely different and the extra boltholes line up with the bigger coolant openings on the bottom.




Edited by shaverjeff - 09 Dec 2018 at 5:59pm
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shaverjeff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 6:08pm
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 9:55pm
Turn it end for end. Have put a lot of late gaskets on that old block with no problem. Block serial was #49.    MACK
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shaverjeff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 7:02am
Turning it end for end doesn't make a difference, the head/block is symmetric.
Perhaps I have an oddball block/head or more likely my 15bolt gasket is for something else?

No matter how I install it, I'm literally almost plugging two of the 3 water jackets. The extra 3/8" bolt holes in the gasket encroach on the larger water hole.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 7:02am
Apologies for poor quality pics:

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shaverjeff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:35pm
Still trying to track down a replacement.
Reliance does list a kit on their site, but I called to confirm and they no longer offer them.

Walt's tractors lists a 12bolt, just waiting on a confirmation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:47pm
If you are concerned about the small holes in the newer version gasket, don't be. There are hundreds of thousands of WC-WF-WD-WD45-D17-170-175's running out there with THAT GASKET !!   The small water hole goes towards the radiator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 4:08pm
If those holes are your only issue, just punch them out a bit bigger.  I'm with the Dr.  That gasket is under thousands of functioning heads and I have never once heard of overheating a head due to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 7:32am
Thanks for the replies. My biggest concern was the difference in water hole size but also it looks like the additional 3/8" unused bolt holes line up with the water jackets...I guess that shouldnt matter though as its no different than the unused holes on the opposite side of the head. The thickness was quite a bit different also .08 for the old and .06 for the new. 

I had initially put the gasket on and torqued everything down and it seeped from both sides as I filled the radiator. Likely an oversight on my part for not coating it with anything.

I've read several different methods from silver paint (the original had this) shellac, copper coat, and I think "hylomar".

I'll give it another go before I pay out the nose for another gasket.
Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 7:41am
No sealer of any kind on one of those gaskets will result in coolant seepage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 8:27am
The new gasket does not appear to be metal on both sides with gasket material between?

Been a long time since I worked on one but the old gaskets used to be metal on each side with the progressively smaller water jacket holes to the front and when you had ether the 12 bolt heads or even the early 15 bolt head with the three 3/8" head bolts (vs 7/16" later--- D17?) on the one side, we would take packaging string and put a strand between the metal all along the one side on heads with no head bolts and even the 3/8" bolts. This would seal those heads up nicely. That was at least what the older mechanics at the dealership I had worked at did. But no good if new gaskets are not metal on each side.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 8:45am
For these style head gaskets to preclude weeping or seeping we used Copper Coat gasket sealant on Both side for correcting any small surface irregularities on head or block, also used same compound on solid head gaskets for flathead engines LIBERALLY to keep them sealed up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 4:55pm
Throw that flimsy black gasket in the trash and get a Victor Reinz 3162, as pictured below on my WD engine. BTW the progressively smaller coolant holes are an updated design and serve to cool the head more evenly by restricting coolant flow towards the front of the head, perfectly normal. Copper coat sealant on both sides unless you have block and head planed, then absolutely no sealant.



Edited by Bill_MN - 11 Dec 2018 at 4:59pm
1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 7:01am
Bill_MN thanks for the part number. The quality difference is drastic.
I've placed my order and hopefully I'll have this buttoned back up for christmas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 6:38am
 
Ordered the part number listed and this is what I got. As far as I can tell mahle distributes the victors gaskets but this is what I got...looks like a step above my previous gasket but still not thick and metal on both sides like the original.  I coated both sides with copper coat, took my time, and this one started seeping as soon as I started filling the coolant.  It was better than the first but still leaky.   I might have to bite the bullet and kick this thing to the machine shop, or the scrap yard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 5:49pm
Jeff, I sent you a PM>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaverjeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 12:16pm
Thanks Phil.
I tried the new gasket coated in coppercoat and it suffered the same fate.
Seeping as soon as I filled the radiator.

There's some pitting on the head at the water jackets that I think was letting the water in. I took some JB weld and filled all pitting carefully, then coated (very thinly) the head/block in the blue stuff (like hylomar but permatex brand). Weird sticky stuff indeed, but a thin coat filled the scratches on the block....I think the block scratches are actually grooves from years past machining but they seem questionably deep.

Coated the first gasket in coppercoat and torqued everything down.
This seemed to do the trick at least for now.

I still need to get a new set of points and seal up the oil pan but its moving under its own power again, for the first time in a decade or so.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 2:18pm
Looks like all that's out there is that head gasket, I called my AGCO dealer just now had him put the gasket has Fe-lPro on the gasket and looks just like yours. I have three more NOS gaskets left and they will be used on my jobs so they are not for-sale, sorry.  

Edited by Don(MO) - 26 Dec 2018 at 2:19pm
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 2:22pm
Hmm, that's a bummer. I did my WD engine about 4 years ago, they must have discontinued the "good" gaskets, but why?? I agree you may have to have some machining done.
1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Bill_MN Bill_MN wrote:

Hmm, that's a bummer. I did my WD engine about 4 years ago, they must have discontinued the "good" gaskets, but why?? I agree you may have to have some machining done.
Bill I was in your camp about the good head gaskets but that changed with the last gasket set I got it is not like the set I had shipped in before this set. I'm thinking that both Victor and Fel-Pro have gone to the same Co. for their gaskets. I ran into this same thing on WD45 Diesel head gaskets three years ago.Ouch 

Edited by Don(MO) - 26 Dec 2018 at 9:15pm
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 4:21pm
Just a word of advice here, Jeff.  When you're cranking any tractor like that, your thumb should be under the crank handle the same as your fingers.  If it ever kicks back with your thumb in the position you have it in your video, you'll end up with a broken or dislocated thumb or maybe worse.  Just be safe!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by Don(MO) Don(MO) wrote:

Bill I was in your camp about the good head gaskets but that changed with the last gasket set I got it is not like the set I had shipped in before this set. I'm thinking that both Victor and Fel-Pro have gone to the same Co. for their gaskets. I ran into this same thing on WD45 head gaskets three years ago.Ouch 
Interestingly enough Don, the overhaul kit I got at the time from Tony (I believe it was Howard brand) had the same cheap gasket in it as well. I was not satisfied with it so I ordered the Victor gasket and got the good one. I cannot remember where I ordered it from though-may have been old stock even back then.


Edited by Bill_MN - 26 Dec 2018 at 6:05pm
1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Bill_MN Bill_MN wrote:

Originally posted by Don(MO) Don(MO) wrote:

Bill I was in your camp about the good head gaskets but that changed with the last gasket set I got it is not like the set I had shipped in before this set. I'm thinking that both Victor and Fel-Pro have gone to the same Co. for their gaskets. I ran into this same thing on WD45 head gaskets three years ago.Ouch 
Interestingly enough Don, the overhaul kit I got at the time from Tony (I believe it was Howard brand) had the same cheap gasket in it as well. I was not satisfied with it so I ordered the Victor gasket and got the good one. I cannot remember where I ordered it from though-may have been old stock even back then.
I just went back and read my last post I forgot to put the word "Diesel" behind WD45 I meant for it to say WD45 Diesel not just WD45. Sorry about that.Embarrassed 
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timstoybox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 6:28am
I to am having trouble with the wc head gasket, rebuilt but the water runs right through the head gasket. Appears the head gasket bearly covers the water jacket hole ?
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