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Off-Color Hydrostat Question

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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by JohnColo JohnColo wrote:

Glad to read you got her moving.  If you drive it the 40 miles back home, you might consider washing the windshield..
Got any cotton to harvest this year?
Yeah John window's a little dusty! That's on my to-do list, along with about a hundred other little things on the machine. The whole cab interior needs a serious cleaning. Would be great to get the A/C working, but that might be a "next summer" project. 
So far no cotton to harvest yet...I've only done custom work so far, and the guy I work for hasn't found any work yet, but hopefully some will pop up soon. 
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Michael V (NM) Michael V (NM) wrote:

I've been following this, glad to see you got it moving!
Thanks, Michael! I'm pretty glad as well. Why don't you run over and help me get all the other little bugs worked out? 
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Michael V (NM) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:48pm
I'd like to come over an help,,,just seems like there is something that needs to be done around here....last couple days it's a pretty good job jus staying warm....
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 10:22pm
That’s the truth! Don’t know how cold you’ve been but we had highs in the 40s yesterday. 60 today and supposed to be 80s this weekend, so a little more normal thankfully!
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 3:36am
don't get this one stuck!
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2020 at 11:09am
Hey guys, I've got another question about these wheel motors. I think the relief valves are stuck partially open. I've been busy with my day job and harvest, so haven't had much time to work on this. Once I start the machine and throttle up, I have to rock the hydro lever back and forth a bit to get the machine moving. If I just push it forward, the machine creeps slowly like it's trying to move, but just can't get going. Once I rock the machine with the hydro a few times, it will take off and the acceleration/deceleration works smoothly...in field gear. If I move the motor swashplates to "road" mode, I have no movement, but the pump still sounds like it has a load on it. 
Go back to the swashplates being in "field" mode...if I'm travelling on flat ground, it does fine, but the minute I go up a slight incline, the machine slows to a stop (pump still sounds like it has a load and charge pressure is good) but the only way to get moving again is to back up and go another way, downhill or on flat ground. 
To me it sounds like relief valves, but I wanted to get your thoughts. 
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2020 at 6:39pm
You were told back in August to get a pressure gauge connected to the hydro to see what it was actually doing. So, what kind of pressures are you seeing at FULL THROTTLE when the machine quits moving ????
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DaveKamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 12:57am
Creston... you've got several symptoms, and they all share a common circumstance...

Study the circuits... I'll bet that you'll find FIELD and ROAD mode to be an equivalent of HIGH and LOW ratio...

I don't know about your machine, but FREQUENTLY, a system that does this, is done by virtue of a hydraulic valve that performs a parallel/series switch.

In FIELD mode, you want a low ground speed, but plenty of motive force.  In this mode, the hydrostatic pump unit's output goes to a TEE, where the branches split fluid flow to right and left wheel motors.  The wheel motors effectively run independant of eachother, and will allow differential action between the two (left and right can go different speeds in a turn).

In ROAD mode, you want high ground speed.  In this mode, the hydrostatic pump flows fluid into ONE of the wheel motors, then out and into the IN of the other wheel motor, then back to tank.  In doing so, the hydraulic VOLUME to each wheel motor's supply is effectively DOUBLED, rather than divided between the two motors.  This results in higher speed on each motor, but with less wheel force available.

The way this is handled hydraulically, is with a specially-plumbed spool valve with two positions-  parallel (field) and series (road).

When the hydraulic valve shifts from one mode to the other, there's a bit of a hydraulic 'shock' that occurs during the shift, and there's usually a pressure relief valve either in the valve, or built into the supply plumbing going TO that valve, because the hydrostatic shock can either break, or hydraulically 'jam' the valve spool.

Now, while it makes sense to do so, that check valve doesn't necessarily need to bypass BOTH valves... it really only needs to bypass ONE, in order to prevent damage and valve jamming.

In the case of your machine, it very well may be that the check valve has crud in it, and in the process of normal operation, has managed to become slightly unseated, thus bypassing a little volume, even though the pressure isn't excessive.

I think Dr. Allis's suggestion of taking pressure readings is a good idea... the OTHER thing I'd do, is go looking at that Field/Road valve, and associated plumbing, pop it apart for an internal look-see.  If there's crud in that check valve, or in the valve spool or it's actuator (electric? mechanical?) isn't fully seating the valve in one or the other positions (like, the detent isn't holding, or crud is preventing the spool from making it to the detent), then a simple scrubbing out of gak, and reassembly, and a serious hydraulic flushing would be my best suggestion.

FWIW... crud inside a hydrostatic system is a bad thing... and machines tend to accrue crud... with compounded interest...
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 10:35am
Dave, thank you again for your excellent replies and stellar explanations! You really make it easier to understand for novices such as myself.
I looked at the machine yesterday and here's what I notice...you are right about field and road mode being high/low ratio. However, there is no parallel/series valve I see. There is an output hose and a suction hose coming from the pump, each goes to a Tee, then into the wheel motors. The high/low ratio is changed by swash plates in the variable speed wheel motors. A lever in the cab has 2 positions...field and road. The linkage controlled by the lever goes down to  the motors and moves the swashplates. 

Doc...I have a high enough PSI gauge that the book calls for, but have been struggling to find the right reducer to adapt it where it will thread into the pump. 


Edited by CrestonM - 05 Jan 2021 at 10:37am
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 11:35am
You get a gauge plumbed into the pump test port. You find out your max stall pressure (at wide open throttle) isn't at spec (5,000 psi or so ??). Your next step is to disconnect the wheel motors by disconnecting hoses and plugging them. Then, retest the pump at max stall wide open throttle. If the max stall pressure is still low, the problem is the hydro pump. If the stall pressure now reaches spec, the problem is one or both drive motors.
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CrestonM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CrestonM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 11:23am
Thanks Doc, I’ll keep working on finding the right fittings to carry out this test. That would get the best results the quickest
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