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Steve in NJ 
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Location: Andover, NJ
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 Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 9:37am |
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Ya know, I like cool stuff like anyone else, but as I'm moving down reading all the responses, I'm thinking the exact same thing as Play Farmer is. Why not just buy a tool box like he shows and put any AC logo on that you would like? For $20 bucks, you can have the design you want to. Put the diamond logo on or the new "A" logo. And, if you really wanted to be cool about it, if you don't find one that's Orange, ya paint it whatever Orange you like. PO1 or PO2. Then you'll have $25. bucks in it cause a spray can usually costs around $4.99. LOL! Does it really matter if its not from AGCO? JMHO
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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ryan(IN)
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Location: Bluffton,IN
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 12:46pm |
 Play Farmer wrote:
OK...I'll ask;
Why not just buy this from Harbor Freight - $17.99 before the coupon;
I know, this is a 17" box, not a 20", but they have other options, as does about every other hardware store.
and this (or whatever other color you'd like) from Tractor Supply for $4.00;
And this off of Ebay for $3.50;
You'd be under $24.00 all in and still have some paint left over.
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This is exactly why they aren't offering it. Don't get me wrong I was not happy with AGCO dropping orange and I don't like that they ignore it was a part of their history. That being said, a lot of the problem is that us allis guys have either boycotted, don't want to pay the price, or have some other reason for not going to AGCO for parts or things like this. If they aren't going to make money on it AGCO isn't going to produce it. This is a problem when parts go aftermarket because people buy from them instead of the OEM. Now granted I do not always buy AGCO because some stuff is crazy priced, but you have to look at the economics of it. If the part is moving in high volume then the part is going to be lower in price and it will still be available. Supply and demand is everything to a business and AGCO is no different. Now after all that, I would be interested in one if you succeed in getting them made.
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ryan
1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62
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Play Farmer
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Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: NNY
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 3:20pm |
This is a catch 22;
They'll never sell 1000 widgets until the price comes down, and the price will never come down until they sell 1000 widgets. Something has to give first.
In this case, I suspect if Agco had priced their stuff reasonably to begin with the aftermarket never would have had a decent opportunity.
I need to rebuild the lift cylinders on my 7000. The repair kit was quoted to by my local Agco dealer for around $35.00 plus freight. I found 1 of the 2 parts needed for $2.49, I know once I take the cylinder apart the other part will be less than $10.00.
I can find the OEM parts on line for $25.03/set, plus shipping. Had my local deal offered me these kits for $25.00 each and brought them in on his stock order (no freight) I would have bought them.
I would have gladly paid $25.00 each for the 2 kits I need, just because it would be easier. As it is, I'll measure up and order my own kit and save $50.00, or more, on the pair of them.
I understand people need to make a reasonable profit to keep the lights on. The extra 29% my local guys wanted was more than I'd consider reasonable.
They're doing it to themselves...
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CAL(KS)
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 3:54pm |
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I understand the issue from a supply and demand point of view. what gets me is they are gonna sell more MM, Oliver and Challenger than AC? AC was bigger than oliver and MM together. I wouldnt buy a $1 MF one to use for a chock block.
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Play Farmer
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 4:32pm |
CAL(KS) wrote:
I understand the issue from a supply and demand point of view. what gets me is they are gonna sell more MM, Oliver and Challenger than AC? AC was bigger than oliver and MM together. I wouldnt buy a $1 MF one to use for a chock block. |
Hey now...I like my Massey too!
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BrianC
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 4:53pm |
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Would be nice to have the real total statistics on production.
As far as legacy, I just checked on the count of items for sale on Tractor House.
This is not so scientific, but Allis count =459, Oliver count=195, Minneapolis Moline count=59, White count=1002. White was the last to shutdown? And someway, I think there is White DNA in today's Massey Ferguson.
And since I have the numbers, International count=2356, Ford count is 1520.
For brands still alive, Case IH=21,946, John Deere=62,745, New Holland=14,194
Kubota=5319, Challenger=1406, Massey Ferguson/Harris=5237, Mahindra=1279
Surprised me there is so much Case IH out there, and so few Massey and Kubota.
Sum of Case and New Holland, slightly better than 1/2 size of John Deere.
This is what I do when bored.
But yeah, why not make an Allis toolbox, if they are bothering to make an Oliver and MM?
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Lonn
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 5:29pm |
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Did you include AGCO Allis on the Allis search or discount the AGCO Whites on the White search. I know there were a lot more AGCO Allis tractors than AGCO White.
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tbran
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 5:38pm |
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guys the tool box is not the issue - the perception is - and perception is reality to the reasoned - that why offer AC anything - it doesn't sell. Are we too cheap - one sees JD everywhere - why -it sells. ? .
The issues is "if Agco offers AC logo "specials" will we buy it? there are few AC heritage dealers left - do the MF dealers and Cat dealers care about the heritage?
IF we as dealers do not publish and offer heritage items - and if Agco doesn't the general public (less than 2% are involved in farming) doesn't get an opportunity. Then if we do - will it sell?
I see both sides - but I know that the company does not do due diligence to promote the AC line. Their argument is we do not do it because it does not sell. Which comes first the chicken or.....
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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BrianC
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:23pm |
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Didn't count the AGCO xxx.
That count ts 440- 5 are Agcostar, 52 are Agco White.
Also there are 92 Deutz Allis.
Counting all AGCO responsibility (allis, agco, white, GSI, MF valtra, Fendt Sunflower, gleaner, challanger, fells
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BrianC
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 6:27pm |
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oops fired off to soon, but about 13,000 items on tractor house are legacy or current AGCO equipment. I assume they sell parts for all of them. Not bad.
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DanWi
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 7:10pm |
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tbran is right they can't sell it if they don't market it, They need to market it to sell it. We may not always like JD but they will paint anything green and yellow and market it as there stuff.
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ACmowerguy
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Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 10:34pm |
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A JD toolbox would also be in the $60 range. As for the Heritage Lines, AC probably has the best parts support. Lots of today's MF bearing and hardware numbers came from old AC part numbers. From one of my coworkers who used to be a parts manager at an AGCO parts dealer, many of the Oliver and Moline parts were dropped out of the system years ago. I have a neighbor (a Deere fan) who sells at farm toy shows as a side job. He says he can't keep enough AC stuff. Its in great demand. Sure its not JD or IH, but its far ahead of MM and Oliver in popularity, and not all AC guys are "too cheap" to buy one or make their own. I'm wondering if the lack of AC stuff has more to do with AGCO losing the AC name rights to Seawell?
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10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments
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VAfarmboy
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Location: Virginia
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Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 12:08am |
tbran wrote:
Agco parts promo's just had a "weekly special" on tool boxes branded MF, Oliver, Challenger and MM - no AC. Soooo I fired off a very nasty email the likes of what has been expressed here many times. I received a response ---------
<Hi Tim:
We didn’t do Allis because as big a heritage as it is, our experience is that we don’t usually sell many of these items.
Can’t speak for toys – just things like the tool box.
I am always willing to investigate another potential sales opportunity.
How many do you think you could sell? >
So, the dealer net is $32 plus frt. unless we get enough
true commitments ... we don't have a grip.
Now I am sure we can't get in on THIS deal - but if a dealer had them for sale a $39 - how many of youse guys would pop for a 7 pound metal tool box with Allis-Chalmers logo on it? Evidently the Oliver, MF, MM and Challenger guys are???? |
AGCO can't make a tool box with an Allis Chalmers logo on it because they don't own the trademark.
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Lonn
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Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 5:42am |
VAfarmboy wrote:
tbran wrote:
Agco parts promo's just had a "weekly special" on tool boxes branded MF, Oliver, Challenger and MM - no AC. Soooo I fired off a very nasty email the likes of what has been expressed here many times. I received a response ---------
<Hi Tim:
We didn’t do Allis because as big a heritage as it is, our experience is that we don’t usually sell many of these items.
Can’t speak for toys – just things like the tool box.
I am always willing to investigate another potential sales opportunity.
How many do you think you could sell? >
So, the dealer net is $32 plus frt. unless we get enough
true commitments ... we don't have a grip.
Now I am sure we can't get in on THIS deal - but if a dealer had them for sale a $39 - how many of youse guys would pop for a 7 pound metal tool box with Allis-Chalmers logo on it? Evidently the Oliver, MF, MM and Challenger guys are???? |
AGCO can't make a tool box with an Allis Chalmers logo on it because they don't own the trademark.
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Why do my oil filters I get for my tractors from my AGCO dealer say Allis Chalmers on them and come out of an AGCO box?
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Lonn
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Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 5:52am |
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My local dealer won't stock Allis toys anymore. They got a new parts manager and he claims Allis Chalmers toys won't sell. He has White, Oliver, Massey, MM and even New Idea toys but there is only one expensive precision or Scale model D15 on the shelf behind the counter that he said won't sell. I said that model has been out for many many years. Where are any new models? How about an LP version or a 210 or something different? Of course you can't sell me more of the same toys I already have. So I don't buy any toys from him anymore and haven't for 10 years or so. There have not been any new models to pick from.
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ACmowerguy
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Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 12:38pm |
VAfarmboy wrote:
tbran wrote:
Agco parts promo's just had a "weekly special" on tool boxes branded MF, Oliver, Challenger and MM - no AC. Soooo I fired off a very nasty email the likes of what has been expressed here many times. I received a response ---------
<Hi Tim:
We didn’t do Allis because as big a heritage as it is, our experience is that we don’t usually sell many of these items.
Can’t speak for toys – just things like the tool box.
I am always willing to investigate another potential sales opportunity.
How many do you think you could sell? >
So, the dealer net is $32 plus frt. unless we get enough
true commitments ... we don't have a grip.
Now I am sure we can't get in on THIS deal - but if a dealer had them for sale a $39 - how many of youse guys would pop for a 7 pound metal tool box with Allis-Chalmers logo on it? Evidently the Oliver, MF, MM and Challenger guys are???? |
AGCO can't make a tool box with an Allis Chalmers logo on it because they don't own the trademark.
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Could be old stock made before the Seawell buyout of Allis Chalmers Energy.
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10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments
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farmtoybuilder
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Posted: 30 Apr 2016 at 3:30pm |
Lonn wrote:
My local dealer won't stock Allis toys anymore. They got a new parts manager and he claims Allis Chalmers toys won't sell. He has White, Oliver, Massey, MM and even New Idea toys but there is only one expensive precision or Scale model D15 on the shelf behind the counter that he said won't sell. I said that model has been out for many many years. Where are any new models? How about an LP version or a 210 or something different? Of course you can't sell me more of the same toys I already have. So I don't buy any toys from him anymore and haven't for 10 years or so. There have not been any new models to pick from.
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Sorry Lonn Not many Allis toys are made by any toy companies! He can't order or sell them when there not available! TOMY is reissuing the D19 again in 1/16 this summer, and they have a few 1/64 items. But nothing Allis!Spec Cast has the most. And have done some 1/64 Agco Gleaners S series in different variations and an orange- mf fwa tractor.
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5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.
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Allis180gas
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Posted: 28 May 2016 at 1:13pm |
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i am not sure if anyone mention this but the reason AGCO cant make any new Allis toys or tools branded with Allis is because there is a company in texas that is a contruction or energy base company that owns the name Allis Chalmers. and they can't use the name for whateverreason
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 28 May 2016 at 1:49pm |
Allis180gas wrote:
i am not sure if anyone mention this but the reason AGCO cant make any new Allis toys or tools branded with Allis is because there is a company in texas that is a contruction or energy base company that owns the name Allis Chalmers. and they can't use the name for whateverreason |
More than 6 years ago, when Allis Chalmers Energy still existed, some individuals got an OK from them to use the Triangle AC logo for there reproduction decals and clothing. AC Energy was bought out back in 2010 so I would bet the new "mother" company would have no problem with people using the logo.
Agco was still badging tractors with Agco Allis when Allis Chalmers Energy was in business.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 28 May 2016 at 1:51pm
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Allis180gas
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Posted: 28 May 2016 at 5:14pm |
CTuckerNWIL wrote:
Allis180gas wrote:
i am not sure if anyone mention this but the reason AGCO cant make any new Allis toys or tools branded with Allis is because there is a company in texas that is a contruction or energy base company that owns the name Allis Chalmers. and they can't use the name for whateverreason |
More than 6 years ago, when Allis Chalmers Energy still existed, some individuals got an OK from them to use the Triangle AC logo for there reproduction decals and clothing. AC Energy was bought out back in 2010 so I would bet the new "mother" company would have no problem with people using the logo.
Agco was still badging tractors with Agco Allis when Allis Chalmers Energy was in business.
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That's what the parts guy at my dealership said so idk how true that is.
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ACmowerguy
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Posted: 28 May 2016 at 7:28pm |
CTuckerNWIL wrote:
Allis180gas wrote:
i am not sure if anyone mention this but the reason AGCO cant make any new Allis toys or tools branded with Allis is because there is a company in texas that is a contruction or energy base company that owns the name Allis Chalmers. and they can't use the name for whateverreason |
More than 6 years ago, when Allis Chalmers Energy still existed, some individuals got an OK from them to use the Triangle AC logo for there reproduction decals and clothing. AC Energy was bought out back in 2010 so I would bet the new "mother" company would have no problem with people using the logo.
Agco was still badging tractors with Agco Allis when Allis Chalmers Energy was in business.
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But "AGCO-Allis" is a different trademark than "Allis-Chalmers."
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10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 28 May 2016 at 9:00pm |
ACmowerguy wrote:
CTuckerNWIL wrote:
Allis180gas wrote:
i am not sure if anyone mention this but the reason AGCO cant make any new Allis toys or tools branded with Allis is because there is a company in texas that is a contruction or energy base company that owns the name Allis Chalmers. and they can't use the name for whateverreason |
More than 6 years ago, when Allis Chalmers Energy still existed, some individuals got an OK from them to use the Triangle AC logo for there reproduction decals and clothing. AC Energy was bought out back in 2010 so I would bet the new "mother" company would have no problem with people using the logo.
Agco was still badging tractors with Agco Allis when Allis Chalmers Energy was in business.
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But "AGCO-Allis" is a different trademark than "Allis-Chalmers."
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Right, it has nothing to do with Allis Chalmers Energy, so why would somebody think AGCO can't badge a tractor with ALLIS on it.
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