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190XTafter - developing low power |
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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My 190 has been workrd hard lately and today is not running well. The engine seems smothered down and cannot rev up. This follows a couple of days where the engine has been running high and low. It would be running at moderate power and suddenly rev up and run really strong with good rpms to the pto. That would only be for a minute and then it would drop back down in power and pto speed. The tractor has not ran at the better power for a ong time and followed a recent servicing. About 2 wks ago I changed oil & filter, air filter, fuel filter, and hydraulic fluid & filter after the transmission would quit pulling and the steering got bad. The servicing seemed to fix those problems but now the enging is sputtering & weak. I have checked the settling bowl and it seemed ok with good fuel flow from the tank. What would you check next?
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Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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Sounds like fuel problems, our is starting to do that, and has done that in the past. 1st thing I would do, is open the return line on the pump and see if there are air bubbles. If bubble are pressent in the return then it is getting air somewhere on the inlet side. At the same time you can look for little black specs of material, if you see these you have a pump rebuild for sure. I would then double check to make sure the shut off lever on the pump is moving freely, and a full stroke. Don't force it, but if memory serves the lever on the pump moves about 50 to 80 degrees (total swing, not position) from off to full on. If all of these thinks check out, I think you are probably looking at a pump rebuild.
Good Luck.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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Thanks Orange Blood for the advice. I was not able to check it today a much as I would like but tried some of this. My guess was that the return line was the top one and I separated it and ran the engine for a few minutes. The metal line had about two inch rubber tubing at certain points and one of them was very loose. I tightened the hose clamps. The diesel looked clear and no black specs were seen. I could not determine if bubbles were present but will check again tomorrow. On the inlet side, I did not see any obvious place the lines could be getting air. The shut off lever and throttle seem to work well and the engine revved up well while setting still. Am I on the track you described?
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Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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You are doing fine. You have located the return, but you need to take the fitting out of the top of the pump, so you can see the bottom side of the fitting, the specs of black material will not come through the fitting.
Air can get in, when fuel won't come out. Fuel molecules are larger than air molecules, so the very start of a pinhole will let air in, and no fuel out. It won't be long though before it starts leaking out though.
The other thing I would check is good fuel flow from the tank, double check that the sediment bowls on the back of the tank are not plugged, one on each side if I remeber correctly. Shut them off, and clean them out, then see what kind of flow you have back at the pump inlet. This will introduce air into the lines, so have the engine warm, and make sure the hand primer works while you are at it. Don't use too much if any either to get her running again. Prime with the injection pump lever on, once it starts keep priming until it evens out. Edited by Orange Blood - 03 Oct 2011 at 9:24pm |
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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I will take the top fitting off tomorrow and it is a good thing to know that an air leak is not always a fuel leak. Two things you mentioned may be a problem on my 190. I believe it only has one sediment bowl although it has a plug where another could be added. Ihave cleaned the bowl twice since I had problems here several years ago with the fine screen in the top of the bowl stopping up after starting the use of fuel system cleaners/treatments. Also, myhand primer has never been very good. It seems that fuel spills so freely from it I really could not tell if it primes on the push or the pull. It gives you a diesel bath either way. Thanks.
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BennyLumpkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Location: Centre Hall, PA Points: 2657 |
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Check your fuel lines! A buddy of mine has a 200 that started to die down so he had the injector pump rebuilt, injectors gone through and nothing....found the fuel line started to collapse inside itself. 10.00 hose cost him alotta money.
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Central PA Allis Express
1934 WC254 1945 WF 1945 WC135755 1951 WD68085 1953 WD45-150217 1957 WD45D-230744D B110 |
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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Orange Blood, I tried everything but checking the flow at the pump inlet and it all looked good. I also checked the fuel lines like Benny said and they are all metal and did not seem bent or pinched. I tightened every fitting from the pump inlet back through the filter, primer and sediment bowl. I ran the tractor for a couple of hours with a 17' v-rake and it ran reasonably good. It surged and then lagged a few times but not as bad as before. I will check the inlet flow as soon as I can but I am trying to get up about 18 acres of hay that has now been cut for a week. Is there anything else I can check on the run?
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Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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I understand needing it to run, as long as you aren't lugging it down, it really shouldn't be a problem, but it really needs to be fixed soon, since starving a pump for fuel, if that's the issue is hard on them. Anyway, you mentioned something earlier that peaked my intrest, you started running fuel system cleaners. I am still betting it is fuel starvation even if the steel lines are not pinched or bent, Benny is still possibly correct, what may have happened is some stuff came loose back when you were running cleaner, and when running it lately it started moving toward the pump, and lodged in a fitting or some other area restricting flow. When I ask you to check flow at the Injection pump inlet, I mean take the line off, and open the tank valve and see just what flow you have, it should run out fairly well if the tank is half full or better. Also if the return is restricted that could also be a problem if it builds back preassure. Just some things to think about.
BTW, don't think I am the only guy on here, I am by no means an expert, just worked on many, there are some real smart guys on here when it comes to pumps.
Hope you find it soon.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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Tracy Martin TN ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10802 |
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I would check tank outlet. Remove bowl and slightly pressurize tank. It should blow a good steady steam. My 185 seemed fine by letting the fuel run with no pressure for a minute or two. It would slow to a trickle. Fuel had a black algae like substanc in bottom ot tank. Blew it out good and no more problems. I had the pump rebuilt a few years before, so it kinda worried me. HTH Tracy Martin
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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Orange Blood, I will check the inlet tomorrow before finishing raking. I would not want to damage the pump and I do think the problem is fuel flow based on what you have said. Tracy's experience may be part of the reason I was using the Lucas several years ago. The Lucas released a black oily substance from the tank that stopped up my sediment bowl screen that I referred to earlier. I almost had the pump rebuilt then but the fuel system cleaner smoothed out the running. If I am not getting good fuel flow at the pump inlet, can the line be blown out with air without causing any other problems?
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21932 |
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There are two sediment bowls, but really only one clean one is needed. Shut off the petcock on the one you want you use and remove the glass bowl. Turn valve on fully and there should be TWO heavy streams of fuel flowing from the center nipple downward. If there is only one stream of fuel drizzling, you have a blockage and the base needs to be unscrewed from the tank and cleaned out with air while someone else holds there finger over the tank hole. Be sure to let a couple gallons of fuel run out of the tank to remove any possible sediment in the area. When reassembling the bowl, do not use the screen any more....leave it out. On top of the injection pump remove the return hose and the nipple from the pump cover and "gut" the outlet nipple so there is no spring or glass ball inside it any more...not needed on a system like a 190XT.
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DOlson ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 25 Dec 2009 Location: Sarona WI Points: 57 |
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Had a similar problem with a D3C cat dozer tuned out it was a few pine needles getting pulled into the fuel line every time it started to work a little hard.Took me weeks to finely figure it out. Good luck finding the problem.
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Rawleigh ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: White Stone, VA Points: 421 |
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While the lines are off use a blow gun and a rag to pressurize the tank as stated about to blow out any trash. The trash may not be apparent from the flow when it is just gravity fed.
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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Took off work at noon to utilize the advice offered here. By the time drove tractor from field to house, about half a mile, power dropped to point tractor went dead in driveway. No gravity flow at pump inlet and pressurizing tank only pushed small amount of fuel out at inlet. Took fuel lines apart back to tank, drained tank, blew everthing out, refueled with filtered fuel, and it cranked and ran smooth. Will try it in field tomorrow. Found lines to be mostly clean except for primer inlet and minor trash between tank and sediment bowl inlet. The primer had a good amount of paint flakes and debris in the spring. The fuel tank was very clean and the drained fuel had minimal small specks. I hope this gets me running again, I'll see tomorrow.
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Orange Blood ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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Sounds like you found the problem, there is no boost pump on these things, so any blockage causes havok. Hope it runs great for a long time.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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I will know tomorrow. I was surprised at where the most blockage was. Thought it would be in the tank or sediment bowl inlet and almost did not take the primer apart. Your advice was great and maybe I will be going strong tomorrow. The engine did run smoother than usual sitting still. Thanks.
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Boogerowen ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 23 Apr 2011 Location: Mannford Ok Points: 431 |
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Dannyhtn, there is NO SUCH THING as minor trash in your diesel fuel system, ANY trash is major and must be eliminated. Completely different from gas. Good luck !!!
GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!
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Dannyhtn ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Hornsby, TN Points: 70 |
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I am finally getting started baling hay after the fuel system delays and the 190 is running smooth. I had one small problem about 30 minutes into raking when I reduced throttle to stop and remove a limb and the engine went dead. I worked with it for about 15 minutes and it started again. It ran smooth with no additional problems to finish raking and baling about 6 acres before the fog rolled in near dark. I think it is fixed and I will tackle the other 12 acres tomorrow. Thanks for all the information and directions.
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acjwb ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 28 Oct 2009 Location: WV Points: 307 |
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I had the same problem a couple years ago. Did the things people has suggested. Helped for a little while. Had to give in and have the injection pump rebuilt. Now it runs fine and does not quit. Around a $600.00 fix here in WV.
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acjwb ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 28 Oct 2009 Location: WV Points: 307 |
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I had the same problem a couple years ago. Did the things people has suggested. Helped for a little while. Had to give in and have the injection pump rebuilt. Now it runs fine and does not quit. Around a $600.00 fix here in WV.
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