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Dave H 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Central IL
Points: 3583
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 Topic: Inheritance issues?
Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 7:04am |
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I am over the hill and may see 10 more years. however wife is in a different boat.
So we sure wouild like to see our lifetime earnings that have paid for this little 5 acres of dirt and a home go to the two daughters.
Right now it is in me and the wife's name.
Is there something that we can do like sell it to the daughter's or whatever to insure that the gov won't rake it if long term care comes into play? State is IL.
I am not interested in what is right, wrong, or indifferent. I have Asked a couple of lawyers (dthat were on the payroll a the time) but always get into the "oh I don't specialize in that field" mode.
thznks
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Stan IL&TN
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Elvis Land
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 7:22am |
Dave, My dad and mom sold the farm to me and my sister..............for 1 dollar. The only bad thing is if your kids decide to sell the place after you are gone then capitol gains would be severe due to the difference between the selling price ($1) and the price it would bring them down the road. It was also written into the sale that dad and mom would continue to live on the place as long as they lived and they would also continue to pay the property taxes and insurance during that time.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
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mdm1
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Onalaska, WI
Points: 2677
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 7:24am |
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Go see a lawyer that is in that field. I do believe money spent on a good lawyer is cheap at the end when it comes to family estate planning. It is really not that spendy. I know alot will disagree. We put our cabin and land in a limited family partnership with our children. A good lawyer will present the options available to you and your situation.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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Tbone95
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
Points: 12160
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 8:40am |
As I always preface, and you did too, state to state varies, and I am in Michigan. A few general comments. Selling it for a dollar is fine, however, the days of that being the answer are pretty much gone. You have a lifetime dollar amount exemption that can be applied to either gifts or inheritance, it doesn't matter which or when, the total is still the same. And if you sell something to someone WAY under market values such as a house and 5 acres for $1, in the eyes of the law you are giving that person a gift equal to value - sale price. Once they record their deed, that amount will be known. Another thing, in Michigan, long term care type thing, they can drain your bank account and just about every possession you have to pay the bills but they CANNOT take your primary residence including any contiguous property. They also cannot take your last vehicle. By the sounds of what you're saying, the value of your house and 5 acres is not over the lifetime exemption amount and you could simple will it to them. Government can't take it away from you to pay health care, inheritance tax wouldn't apply because the value is low enough. A guess. You could look into a living trust, naming the daughters executors upon the death or mental incapacities of both you and the Mrs. That's what I have. Having said all that, see a lawyer! Good luck.  |
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CrestonM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 8:58am |
In Oklahoma, if you can't pay for long term care and your insurance won't (heard of that happening...people pay into long term care insurance, then the insurance drags their feet and won't cover it), you WILL lose your land & money, UNLESS...you sell it/deed it/give it away, at least 5 years before you go into the long term care facility (Used to be 3 years but they changed the law).
We are going through this with my grandparents right now, and have been since March. It's a bad, bad deal.
A friend of my grandpa's gave everything he had to his kids a few years ago, now he is in the nursing home, and hates it. He says about his kids, "They got my farms, they got my money, they got my equipment, and they stuck me HERE!"
Edited by CrestonM - 10 Jul 2018 at 9:00am
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JC-WI
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 34308
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 9:36am |
Now here in Wi there is something called TOD Deed.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Ray54
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 10:36am |
I would agree with mdm1. But finding the the right lawyer can be a super big job.
Have one that got us by with my parents. Was getting a A grade until the end when one sentence was off. So far things are Ok but if property tax exemptions get changed it would cost me the whole 300 acres. But then again the greedy socialists running this state could take everything from everybody just cause. So my wife has been using the same one for her mother and only about a C+ this time.
So the short rant : You need them but would so much better if you didn't.
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mdm1
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Onalaska, WI
Points: 2677
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 11:00am |
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Our situation is somewhat different with cabin and land. We set up the partnership to transfer it to our children but also we needed to protect it from lawsuits involving any of us. None of the share holders can use it to secure a loan or pay off debt. We have buyout provisions within the partnership. Whatever you decide to do be comfortable with your decision and don't leave things on done for your heirs. you have responsibilities even after you are gone. Be easier if you lived in a tent and ate twigs!
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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Dakota Dave
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: ND
Points: 3971
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 11:38am |
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Don't wait get with a lawyer right now dad set up a living trust after he retired. When he had a stroke and needed long term care Minnesota care imeadatly went after the farm as soon as the money was used up. The state took dads retirement and SS mom was left with the property only because of the trust she wasn't even left enough money to pay the taxes on it from dads retirement. It wasn't that expensive to have the paperwork drawn up and the Lawer was available to fight off the state.if you just leave it to them in the will all outstanding estate debts (medical bills) will be paid out of it before they get anything. I know my dads were $10000 a month for assisted care. His retirement and SS only accounted for 2/3 of that and the rest went against the estate.
Edited by Dakota Dave - 10 Jul 2018 at 11:46am
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tadams(OH)
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Jeromesville, O
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:30pm |
Here in Ohio we put ours in a trust with two of our children in charge. We can draw 10% of the money out of the trust at a time but we have to go threw the trustees. We have to have it in there 10 years and then if we need assisted living or a rest home medicare has to pay after any money we have that is not in the trust is used up.
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Brian F(IL)
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paxton, IL
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:47pm |
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I know of a pretty good law firm that handles things like this. PM me if you're interested.
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Scott B
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Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: Kansas City
Points: 1048
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 2:47pm |
Sell them the property at fair market value to avoid the future capital gains issue. Have them make a monthly payment and the "gift" them the money back. Believe you can "gift" up to $15k per person per year without tax consequences. You definitely expose yourself to liability issues in the event the daughters or grandchildren are sued. Would also have it in just daughters name and not an 'SIL or DIL'. My parents were gifting money to their children to liquidate their cash assets and prevent the long term care challenge. We held it in an account for them for future need at their request (requires a lot of trust!) and we recognized the legal exposure and bumped up insurances. Firsthand experience, my wife and sister were heir to a neighbors 40 acre estate. The elderly lady lived 10 years in a nursing facility and funded by the State. When she passed, the State placed a lien on the property....we bought some of it back but couldn't afford all. This is truly an issue and a lot of people aren't aware. I also agree good legal work in advance is worth the expense x 100 vs down the road.
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cabinhollow
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Joined: 24 Mar 2018
Location: SEKY
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 5:20pm |
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I am part of a large family.
So about 5 years ago, I set it up with my parents and brought the family farm.
Some of the family are still not talking to me, as they were expecting the farm to be gave to them.
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TramwayGuy
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: Northern NY
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 5:47pm |
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My Morher-in-Law transferred the 600+ acres and buildings to a Trust. Then 5 years had to pass before the take-back provision lapsed. She died before that happened, and didn’t need public assistance, fortunately.
There are people who specialize in this. Any lawyer should be able to recommend one.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 6:12pm |
 mdm1 wrote:
Go see a lawyer that is in that field. I do believe money spent on a good lawyer is cheap at the end when it comes to family estate planning. It is really not that spendy. I know alot will disagree. We put our cabin and land in a limited family partnership with our children. A good lawyer will present the options available to you and your situation. |
X2, see a lawyer. Lots of good advice, below, too, but you need to see a lawyer that knows your particular state's laws on inheritance. You need an estate lawyer... 
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weiner
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 6:53pm |
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What ever you do, make sure you have it in writing that you and your spouse have a life time lease. I have seen a couple three thrown to the curb after selling/given to a family member.
Yes, some kids can get pretty low and have no conscience at all.
Edited by weiner - 10 Jul 2018 at 6:55pm
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Michael Crowe
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Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 9:23pm |
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Go consult a lawyer that practices in that area of the law. Money well spent. If you don’t you won’t know you screwed it up until it’s too late to correct it.
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The 14th Annual Exclusive AC Swap Meet will be held in Boonville, MO, March 7-8, 2025. See the club website for details: http://www.moacclub.com/
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PaulB
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Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 10:02am |
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A good lawyer is a necessary evill, there’s no way around that. Finding one that fit your needs for you circumstances is nearly impossible. The one that did a supurb job helping my wife settle the mess of her father’s farm with the problems her siblings created, made an absolute mess with my mother’s estate. Then it took me a team of two others to get things copletely finilized. And then it was not to what my parents had wanted, but at least now it’s over and I have no need to ever have any contact with any of my “Former” relitives EVER!
Edited by PaulB - 11 Jul 2018 at 10:11am
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shameless dude
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Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 1:17am |
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check with your state, you can gift so many acres a year without tax problems later
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klinemar
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 5:59am |
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You need an Attorney that specializes in Elder Law and Estate Planning. Also ask your daughter's do they want the property and do they want to own jointly? Beware of their Spouses! Any property that is gifted or inherited has to be capped for property taxes in Michigan or the assesor can re access and the new owners see a significant increase in property taxes. The best advice is for everyone involved to talk and not get angry because someone does not want to do what you want! All of the problems can't be solved but an amicable settlement can be reached. The biggest hurdle is the Nursing home especially if the surviving parent goes to one! Will's are good only if you die!
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Dave H
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Location: Central IL
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Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 7:53am |
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Thanks folks, good info to ponder.
Yes i will be consulting and attorney, if I can find one that works.
And thanks for the proper title there Klien.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 9:40am |
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I had an uncle go through this problem. My aunt ended up in a nursing home with Alzheimer's and lived 5 years in the nursing home. My uncle was having to sell land in order to pay for her care. The only way out of not having to use any assets or savings was to divorce her. He didn't do it. Check with an attorney, but I'd bet that before Title 19 comes into play, at minimum her share of all assets/savings would be taken for her expenses.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Ron Eggen
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Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 9:50pm |
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Check with your local Farm Bureau, they know lawyers & can recommend someone to you. Just remember that whenever the State pays bills, it is your and mine money they are using, they have no money until they take it from someone else.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 12:59pm |
My lawyer is a great guy. He sends me a bill if he answers a question I ask by e-mail. 
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 1:00pm |
yes and when he's your and someone else ask about something your already work on with he also adds it to your bill.
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2018 at 6:48am |
One of those subjects that generalizations just dont apply well. What your estate consists of changes how it should be handled along with who is getting it, how far apart the spouses are for life expectancy, etc etc etc.
A newer law that some dont seen to be aware of is they can recoup expenses from your heirs if they have had them for less than X number of years ago, I think 10 but might be wrong. Thus a person can no longer dump everything to their kids and then go to a managed care the next day with somebody else paying for all of it it, that I do know.
We are very tight with our kids and have handled ours by divesting little by little over the years to them which has helped them in a much greater manner getting on solid financial footing than them getting a big lump later in life when they are secure anyway. If we get into a tick later on they will in turn help us out, that we are assured but I realize that plan isn't for everyone.
Go to a financial planner, lay things out and THINK about it before you go with their recommendations. That's my advise.
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Dusty MI
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Posted: 17 Jul 2018 at 9:34am |
One never hears about the estates that are settled nicely. So I'm going to say that I was very well pleased at how well my wife, she was put in charge of my folks estate, and my 2 sisters handled my folks estate. We did not always agree. We would often give friendly suggestions but let who ever was in charge of that area do it their way. Never had an argument.
Dusty
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 17 Jul 2018 at 2:24pm |
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Dandan111
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Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 3:18pm |
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My dad always said he was going to put all money into a trust when he retired. He retired and died and money still isn't in a trust. Hard to take your hand off of the money I guess. I think money needs to be out of your name in a trust for 5 years last I heard. Mom has gave each of us $15,000 one year and like $5,000 another. I don't say anything anymore. Whatever she wants. The house would be another issue. I'd say get it out of your name. Sell it to the kids and gift the money back to them.
It's up to you, it's your money and I know it's hard to let go. Also sometimes kids cause problems not wanting to participate. I'd tell the kid ok and let the others have their share. Just my 2 cents.
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