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Ray54 
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
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 Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 9:51pm |
My rememberer is slipping  sooooooo. But I believe Cat is buying Asian built small excavators and re-branding just as John Deere is doing.
It seems Allis Chalmers  farm equipment name gets the short end of the stick every time. I still don't have a feeling of knowing what Duetz was trying to do,other than tick  off American farmers. Also no clue  why AGCO is so set on killing the AC name. My thinking is AC would of sold equal or better than MF when AGCO started. I have never looked for a Massey Ferguson group but just don't see the old stuff out here.
Time has marched on we have green,red, ????? AGCO doesn't even have a color yet,MF red Heston brown/red,Challenger yellow and how many shades of gray, and green,and more in Europe.
Edited by Ray54 - 30 Dec 2018 at 9:54pm
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1955CA
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Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 9:59pm |
In yet another odd AGCO move....why, in North America would they make the new Ideal combine available only under the Fendt name and colors?
Of all the brands under their umbrella.....North American's know Gleaner, AC, Massey or Challenger. Why would they make their new flagship combine only available in a European brand name??????
Ray45....guess it depends on dealers, because there is a strong loyal following of Massey users around here. And now the closest dealer is either 2 hours away in Pickford Michigan, or over 4 hours away on the Canadian side. And everyone that had orange Agco's, like even the International Bridge Authority now has Massey's.
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1955CA
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Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 11:13pm |
And is it true they are going to do away with the Challenger name? I was told they will be Fendt's now. 
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bigal121892
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Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Location: Nebraska
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Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 9:17am |
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The Challenger name and colors are staying, but the tractors will be rebadged Fendt’s, instead of rebadged Massey’s. The Fendt tractor in the picture, is for export.
Edited by bigal121892 - 31 Dec 2018 at 9:22am
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HudCo
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Location: Plymouth Utah
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Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 9:49am |
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i thought versatile and allis would have been good
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FREEDGUY
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Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
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Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 3:29pm |
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Now that you brought up Versatile, I forgot all about the FORD line of tractors. I must admit, I am unclear "who" was the first to go "down"- A/C,Case,I'H,Ford. White ??
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Ray54
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Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 9:58pm |
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From the adds in Calif specific publications Cat dealers are all Massey dealer now as well. So if Challenger was to go away it would not surprise me.
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mtanut
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Location: sandy lake, pa
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 7:23am |
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Tenneco bought case as everyone knows I honestly think it was for the construction (just my 2 cents worth) more than farm tractors. In the 70's Case held the majority of the backhoe market. Case guys always say that case bought Ih, but Tenneco I think saw a bargain and jumped on it. So Case didn't buy squat. The hay equipment was Hesson at the time and after fiat bought the majority of cih they had a stake in hesson ( if I remember right) Ford had bought New Holland in the late 80's and all of a sudden we had ford ovals stuck on NH equipment. After fiat bougt the majority of ford farm division government and declared a monopoly so the sold off their shares of Hesson I believe to agco.
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I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, Model K gleaner, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's)John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 7:36am |
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And AGCO didn't have the $$$$$ to purchase Hesston, so do you know who loaned them the money ???..... Ford Motor Company !!
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1955CA
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 10:08am |
I could be wrong, but I thought New Holland bought Ford's tractor line after Ford stole all Versatile's designs.
I do know the original Ford articulated 4WD tractors were Versatile's painted blue, and that was before New Holland name was on them.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 10:25am |
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Ford bought New Holland years before. When Ford wanted to get out of farm equipment (to expand their F-series truck line), they sold Ford/New Holland to Fiat. After an agreed to period of time the FORD name disappeared and everything Ford/New Holland blue became New Holland only. This is why Ford loaned AGCO $$$$ to buy Hesston. They wanted their sale of their farm equipment division to Fiat to go thru.
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1955CA
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 10:28am |
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Oh ok....I always thought it was NH that bought the Ford tractor line.
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injpumpEd
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 11:11am |
 1955CA wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought New Holland bought Ford's tractor line after Ford stole all Versatile's designs.
I do know the original Ford articulated 4WD tractors were Versatile's painted blue, and that was before New Holland name was on them. |
Steiger built the FW series of articulated Ford 4 wheel drives.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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victoryallis
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: Ludington mi
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 11:37am |
injpumpEd wrote:
1955CA wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought New Holland bought Ford's tractor line after Ford stole all Versatile's designs.
I do know the original Ford articulated 4WD tractors were Versatile's painted blue, and that was before New Holland name was on them. |
Steiger built the FW series of articulated Ford 4 wheel drives. |
The FW series was the only Steiger built Fords. I had the displeasure of owning one. Some parts had green paint under the blue paint. Never lost that much money on a tractor in my life.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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JohnCO
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 1:25pm |
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Victory, what was the major problem with your Steiger/Ford?
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
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injpumpEd
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Location: Walnut IL
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:46pm |
JohnCO wrote:
Victory, what was the major problem with your Steiger/Ford?
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903 issues? lmao!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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victoryallis
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 6:41pm |
injpumpEd wrote:
JohnCO wrote:
Victory, what was the major problem with your Steiger/Ford?
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903 issues? lmao! |
I cannot directly contribute any of my problems to the 903. Shelled out the dropbox spent $7000 rebuilding that then couple years later had a leaking input shaft to the rearend ended up finding a chunk missing from a casting causing play in the shaft($4000), never had good brakes, 9 times out of 10 had to shut it off to shift it. Every once in awhile had to shut it off lay on the front tires and force the range shift to shift, occasionally lost fluid in the clutch, had to adjust the clutch about every other year.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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nick121
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Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Location: ontario
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Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 8:47pm |
Crazy how many brand went under/ merged. Would be cool if they were all still operating today. I'd say Allis and case would've been decent. Or even if Deutz was smarter and continued on working on what Allis left off at. The whole agco thing is silly that they haven't even picked a color and stuck with it, should've kept making the orange agco Dt, series etc.
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WF owner
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Location: Bombay NY
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Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 9:36pm |
When I see the number of farms (mostly dairy in our area) that are still operating today, compared to the number of farms there were in the 70's and 80's, I can see why all of the tractor manufacturers could not have hoped to survive. When Dad bought his 180 in 1968, our local AC dealer (Debyah Farm Equipment) had got in either 28 or 38 new tractors and they were a relatively small dealer. (I remember seeing them come in by train.) I doubt even the biggest remaining dealers sell that many new tractors in a year. Personally, I don't know how AGCO survives against John Deere, Case IH, New Holland, Kubota and Mahindra. There are very few AGCO tractors in our area and most of them are Massey Ferguson.
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Lonn
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 5:57am |
DrAllis wrote:
And it seems every one of these newer "emissions" engines life expectancy is waaaaay less than older versions. Maintenance costs are usually higher too. |
That's why a muffler is $10,000 or more for a newer red Steiger. Couldn't believe the price when was told at the shop I used to be partsman at. I didn't ask why a not so old Steiger needed a new muffler.
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Lonn
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 6:00am |
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I believe IH owned a minority share of Steiger long before CaseIH purchased all of Steiger.
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Ken(MI)
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 3:27pm |
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Business Deals are like divorces, only two parties know all the details, and everyone else is left to speculate from a very limited and often skewed pool of knowledge and rumors.
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victoryallis
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 5:07pm |
WF owner wrote:
When I see the number of farms (mostly dairy in our area) that are still operating today, compared to the number of farms there were in the 70's and 80's, I can see why all of the tractor manufacturers could not have hoped to survive./DIV] |
Bingo We farm what was 20-25 farms when I was a kid. Even if I’m tractor heavy that eliminates a lot of iron.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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1955CA
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 5:40pm |
I was really surprised when i was reading it on www.realagriculture.com the number of big tractors and combines that are sold annually. PLEASE DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS because I can't remember the exact number, but it was only in the hundreds I think in North America. Was way lower than I would have ever imagined.
So kinda explains why they are half a million dollars to buy.
But I can say my Kubota dealers sells LOTS of small compact and small utility tractors. Seems like that is where the market is now. Homeowners and small farms.
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WF owner
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 5:41pm |
in the 70's and 80's, we had a lot of 40 - 60 cow (dairy) farms in our area. Almost every farm had 3 or more tractors.
Now I see 2000 (and more) cow farms that have 10 tractors or less.
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1955CA
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Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 6:18pm |
Lonn wrote:
DrAllis wrote:
And it seems every one of these newer "emissions" engines life expectancy is waaaaay less than older versions. Maintenance costs are usually higher too. |
That's why a muffler is $10,000 or more for a newer red Steiger. Couldn't believe the price when was told at the shop I used to be partsman at. I didn't ask why a not so old Steiger needed a new muffler.
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Don't know how accurate this is (was posted on another ag discussion forum) but I can tell you the catalysts that go in these SCR system's were $8600 for our Cummins ISX, almost the same for a MP10 Mack and yet the two for my Detroit Diesel One-Box were only $1600. A big local fleet was having theirs cleaned at dealer instead of replacing with new and they found they were only getting about 60% of the life out of them. 
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iowallis
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Posted: 04 Jan 2019 at 7:50pm |
When I was younger and shortly after Allis was bought by Deutz I was at my uncle's house for Easter and the "men folk" went out for a drive to look at area farms like we normally did. He took us to a neighbor who bought a new Allis/Deutz and we looked it over. The question asked, and I still remember almost everybody asking was "why?". Weird color, strange engine, etc...
In my opinion if Allis/Deutz would have left things alone for a year or 2 or sold the different tractors side by side for awhile till the market adjusted to the newness the the Deutz or Deutz adjusted to the market, the Allis story may have had a different future.
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1955CA
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Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 3:54pm |
Speaking of these mergers, and someone on this forum saying Kubota will never be a serious ag player, the rumor was just announced.
There will now be orange Kubota versions of the Canadian built Versatile tractor.
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