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Rowland49 
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 Topic: Need Radiator Fan for DES-30
Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 9:39pm |
I have an Allis Chalmers DES-30, 30KW
diesel generator with the D-262 diesel engine that I am restoring. I am trying to find an OEM push style
radiator fan for this unit. The fan specs are:
Rotation: Clockwise when facing the
engine.
Fan Diameter: 16 7/8"
Mounting Holes: Four
Mounting Hole Diameter: 5/16"
Bolt Circle Diameter: 1 3/4"
Bolt Center to Center: 1.023"
Pilot Hole: 1"
If anyone has any info where a pusher
type fan was used on the D-262 diesel installed in graders, harvesters, etc., I
would appreciate hearing from you. I'm
following up on any leads where this type of fan may have been installed in
other Allis Chalmers applications.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 05 Aug 2017 at 9:54am |
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Bet fork lifts had pusher fans.Some used 6cyl gas...should be same
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ACjack
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Location: Peoria, Arizona
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Posted: 05 Aug 2017 at 10:46pm |
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There were commercial power units built using the D262 engine that used either the blower or the sucker fan. It all depended on how the dealer ordered it.
Those power units where used to power saw mills, irrigation pumps and any other stationary use
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Rowland49
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Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 2:47pm |
Thanks, Steve, I'm making the rounds to the forklift folks now. The major hurdle is trying to find a young parts guy raised around old iron, or an old parts guy raised around the iron when it was young.
So far my travels have come up empty handed as most folks that answer the phone stall quickly if you don't have a model of the forklift equipment for them to use in a search engine on a computer. Matching by the fan's design specs appears to be an option that is not included in their search engines, and no experience with the equipment in the field leaves them with no background to call on while trying to chase down a part.
I'm also tracking down a lead to a manufacturer of fans for OEM applications that may be able to come up with something based on the fan's design specs.
Thanks for your help.
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Rowland49
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Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 3:13pm |
ACjack, thanks for the info.
When I picked up this stationary generator, it wasn't until I got it home and started working on getting it started that I discovered the pump pulley sat forward of the crank pulley plane by about 3/4", and the fan belt was running at an angle.
Upon disassembling the fan and pump pulley assembly, I discovered that someone had done a hack job on this generator and it appears that they were given a water pump from a different D-262 application and when they discovered the pulley and fan didn't fit properly, they bashed a spacer together that didn't fit the pilot hole in the fan so they used washers between the fan and the spacer to establish a flat surface for the fan hub to rest on, relying on the mounting holes to keep the fan centered. Whoever did this had to have seen the misalignment but shrugged their shoulders and walked away. Guess they were part of the, "Let the next guy deal with it.", crowd.
Based on the history of the generator, the original installation called for a blower style fan. Once I found the correct pump and pulley for the engine, I was able to machine a custom spacer for the pump hub that provided the proper pilots for the fan and the hub. The unit is up and running with the suction fan, but I'd need to find the blower fan as I'm going to donate the generator for a project and it will require a blower fan.
The quick and easy is to simply install an electric fan with a blower blade pitch. The unit is in such good shape, I'd like to keep it as close to it's original old iron equipment as I can. I may lose to function over nostalgia. Thanks for the info.
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Rowland49
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Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 3:23pm |
I should have posted this photo with my original posting.
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ACjack
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Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 7:55pm |
 Rowland49 wrote:
I should have posted this photo with my original posting. |
Look at the data plate that's on the engine in this picture. It will list all of the option groups that made up this particular build. A outfit or person with the AC parts listings should be able to look up the individual option groups which in turn will list each individual part numbers for every nut and bolt that went into this generator set build.
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Steve allis dozer
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Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 8:25pm |
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Thats a nice looking unit , are there many of them around?
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 6:31am |
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Hate to say this but check the blades, most 'Pusher' style fans as we used on other gensets were nothing more than the fan installed backward to intuitive sense, the blades have minimal variance from leading to trailing edge on gensets where cars/tractors the leading edge is the narrow edge. Anyone not around them much would not understand as is the case someone put the incorrect alternator or water pump alignment on it.
You have a radiator, what is wrong with it? If it is still somewhat intact a 'better' radiator shop can construct a core if needed using the original tanks.
Edited by DMiller - 07 Aug 2017 at 6:33am
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 8:21am |
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Also wish I had found a unit in as good a shape, could use it here.
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ACjack
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Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 8:35am |
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All gen set and power units that came from the factory (Harvey Engine Plant) had the correct style fan on them as ordered from the dealer. Never would a fan be installed "backwards". It was one of the many items that was checked to the purchase order prior to it being "OK to Ship" by the inspector. The option plate listed all of the options by group number that was on the purchase order. By breaking down the group numbers you'll be able to identify by part number every nut and bolt that went into everything including the engine.
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DMiller
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Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 10:46am |
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Unless the previous owner maintenance tech installed the 'correct' fan backward or face to the pulley instead of radiator.
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ACjack
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Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 6:46pm |
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If my memory still functions there's most likely a part number stamped onto it somewhere.
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Rowland49
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 4:39pm |
The data plate shows a part number of, "4514744, 17”
Fan, Blower". I've been using this number when contacting parts suppliers but evidently it's old enough that they no longer have a cross for it. At least the folks I have talked to so far including AGCO.
[/QUOTE] Look at the data plate that's on the engine in this picture. It will list all of the option groups that made up this particular build. A outfit or person with the AC parts listings should be able to look up the individual option groups which in turn will list each individual part numbers for every nut and bolt that went into this generator set build. [/QUOTE]
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Rowland49
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 4:42pm |
I've only seen one other one in this power range. I have a suspicion there may be a fair number of them out there using a military nomenclature, but I haven't had time to go down that path yet.
Steve allis dozer wrote:
Thats a nice looking unit , are there many of them around? |
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Rowland49
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 5:16pm |
DMiller wrote:
Hate to say this but check the blades, most 'Pusher' style fans as we used on other gensets were nothing more than the fan installed backward to intuitive sense, the blades have minimal variance from leading to trailing edge on gensets where cars/tractors the leading edge is the narrow edge. Anyone not around them much would not understand as is the case someone put the incorrect alternator or water pump alignment on it.
You have a radiator, what is wrong with it? If it is still somewhat intact a 'better' radiator shop can construct a core if needed using the original tanks. |
The radiator is in great shape. My problem is, as a piece of old iron I'm trying to keep it as close to the original design as possible by installing the correct fan that was on there when delivered.
The other issue is, this is going to go inside an enclosure to protect it from the elements and that necessitates a blower configuration for the radiator. Flipping the fan 180 degrees came to mind, but a close study of the blade contour showed that it is slightly "J" shaped, as opposed to a flat paddle shaped surface. If it was completely flat, flipping it would fix the problem. The bottom of the fan blade on the engine is curved directing air off the blade face towards the engine as it is now installed. Reversing the blade would move some air through the radiator but with no where near the efficiency of a proper fan for a blower application.
As to the incorrect pulley and fan on the engine when I got it, after my own experiences tracking down parts, I'm beginning to have the suspicion that whoever installed the incorrect parts may have needed a new water pump and found a used assembly complete with the pump, pulley, and fan.
Beings that the back of the new pump was identical to the old pump, whoever installed the new parts did not go through a complete check for fitment before bolting everything down. Failure of the fan belt to line up on the pulleys was the red flag that came too late, and apparently whoever did the work finished off with, "To hell with it", and left it for the next guy to do it right.
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Rowland49
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 5:33pm |
ACjack wrote:
If my memory still functions there's most likely a part number stamped onto it somewhere. |
You're correct, it's on the engine plate. I've been using this number for about a year with no success as yet. I've worked my way through most all of the Allis Chalmers Tractor sites I could find and now I'm working my way through anything I can find for forklifts. My next list is anyone that deals with stationary generators, and then on to the military. The fan is out there somewhere, I just need to stick with it.
Thanks for all the input.
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ACjack
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 5:55pm |
Rowland49 wrote:
The data plate shows a part number of, "4514744, 17”
Fan, Blower". I've been using this number when contacting parts suppliers but evidently it's old enough that they no longer have a cross for it. At least the folks I have talked to so far including AGCO.
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Look at the data plate that's on the engine in this picture. It will list all of the option groups that made up this particular build. A outfit or person with the AC parts listings should be able to look up the individual option groups which in turn will list each individual part numbers for every nut and bolt that went into this generator set build. [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
The number 4514744 17' FAN, BLOWER that's on the data plate isn't the P/N for the fan but, is the group number. The group number breaks down into each individual P/N for each part that is used to make up the group. "IE" quantity and part number of mounting bolts, washers, spacer if used and the part number of the fan its self.
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ACjack
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 6:00pm |
I've only seen one other one in this power range. I have a suspicion there may be a fair number of them out there using a military nomenclature, but I haven't had time to go down that path yet.
The reason you don't find very many of them is not because of a military nomenclature but, because there was hardly any gen sets built using the D262 engine not at lease while I was the inspector for the department that built the gen sets in the mid 70's.
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Rowland49
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 9:46pm |
ACjack wrote:
Rowland49 wrote:
The data plate shows a part number of, "4514744, 17”
Fan, Blower". I've been using this number when contacting parts suppliers but evidently it's old enough that they no longer have a cross for it. At least the folks I have talked to so far including AGCO.
|
Look at the data plate that's on the engine in this picture. It will list all of the option groups that made up this particular build. A outfit or person with the AC parts listings should be able to look up the individual option groups which in turn will list each individual part numbers for every nut and bolt that went into this generator set build. |
[/QUOTE]
The number 4514744 17' FAN, BLOWER that's on the data plate isn't the P/N for the fan but, is the group number. The group number breaks down into each individual P/N for each part that is used to make up the group. "IE" quantity and part number of mounting bolts, washers, spacer if used and the part number of the fan its self. [/QUOTE]
Ok. Now I'm onboard. I remember seeing those groups in some of the engine manuals I've been able to get my hands on. I'll retrace my steps and start looking for the group.
In trying to cross this engine to the ones used in the tractors (D17, D19, WD45) to determine the year of manufacture, my speculation has been that this unit might have been made in the mid 1960's. Could my unit be from the mid seventies based on what you see in the photo?
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ACjack
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Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:46pm |
In trying to cross this engine to the ones used in the tractors (D17, D19, WD45) to determine the year of manufacture, my speculation has been that this unit might have been made in the mid 1960's. Could my unit be from the mid seventies based on what you see in the photo?
It's a great looking gen set so, ya it's possible it's from the 70's. The only way to tell for sure would be to trace back the engine S/N. As I said before not very many gen sets were built with the D-262.
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