| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
sbp 
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: hd7g oil seal for top shaft
Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 8:25pm |
|
I have pulled the trans out of my 60's model hd7g but having difficult time finding top shaft oil seal part #624650, the seal is stamped 243126-M1 C/R. I'm ready to drop the trans in but do not want to use the old seal, its a little rough. Any help would be appreciated. I've contact Minnpar and couple others who tell me no longer available. Hopefully this is the last piece I've already replaced sprockets, tracks, motor, torque converter, starter. Fat Allis is my six million dollar man/dozer or so it seems.lol
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
creeperfreak
Silver Level
Joined: 10 May 2013
Location: WNC
Points: 142
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 9:16pm |
|
Seal is still available from industrial supply houses. Plug the C/R (Chicago Rawhide) number into google, you will find interchange numbers.
|
|
CAL(KS)
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Points: 3803
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Aug 2015 at 6:21am |
|
new # is SKF 18039
|
|
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
|
|
Coke-in-MN
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41957
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Aug 2015 at 9:15am |
https://mibearings.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=2&sort=2a&page=1444C-R 243126M1 SEAL OEM PART NUMBER: 243126M1 OEM Manufacturer: C-R This product is manufactured by Timken and provides a compatible interchange with... | $10.39
|
|
|
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Oct 2015 at 9:38pm |
HD7G Thanks for the info. I have changed the trans but STILL have low pressure, holding the same pressure as before the trans change. Pressure Lube pressure is great. The left brake booster seams like the piston is stuck or something is not letting the rod move the piston. Can this be reason for low pressure? I have another booster and am going to change it out. Or is whats causing the low pressure causing the brake booster not to function properly? Could the low pressure be an issue with the clutch valve body? My last option is to take the hydraulic pump off and have it tested but since its mechanical doesn't seem like the problem. I have changed all the filters and cleaned all 3 screens. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 5:00pm |
|
Brakes/steering uses the little pump under the injection pump, notorious failure for me as I lost the OE then a replacement and ended up on a third. Trans shifting is related to the double row pump on the back of the converter housing, I had issues with the suction hose from the left strainer assembly sucking air then the old pump just failed, luckily I had a replacement off a donor tractor. Pump takes suction from both trans strainers and is highly temperamental.
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 9:14pm |
|
Thanks Miller. Is there a priming process to get air out or to get the left suction sucking? Having changed the trans is it possible the pump is just sucking air, how do i get it to pick up the oil? Thanks for any help.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 6:42am |
|
The major gorilla is the pump on the converter, it takes suction on the bottom trans strainer delivering that oil to the left finals housing trans region continually filling it to keep the level up for the other stage of that pump and the steering pump.
Make certain all the slip on hose sections for the steering pump tubes are in excellent order, then confirm the large suction hose to the converter mounted pump is not sucking air(from the mid-level trans strainer), I changed mine using wire spring reinforced oil rated but flexible hose from a hydraulic shop instead of the Aeroquip style line but using those fittings and hose clamps.
The pump is still available so if has shot its load replacement can be found,
I intentionally grease packed that pump prior to startup after my own trans replacement for each pump installed to make certain it primed. Once primed the only way it can re-lose it is for the pump shaft seal to leak. I had serious issues with wear and tear and just little to no previous owner maintenance.
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:34pm |
|
Thanks again Miller, i think I'm getting closer. How do I prime the pump and make sure/check that the pump is primed and not sucking air from somewhere? This may be the cause of the left brake booster issue too.
Edited by sbp - 13 Oct 2015 at 8:13pm
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 9:07pm |
|
Remove the suction lines from the pump, buy a tube of white lithium grease, will come in a squeeze tube like a giant toothpaste tube, fill the gear pump suction cavities with the grease and maybe a few inches in the lines, pump should self prime as is a positive displacement in a open center system.
If it takes prime but loses it shortly after or after shutting it down then you have a air inleakage issue in the suction lines or the pump shaft seal, or possibly all the above plus the same as I found with excess clearance in the pump from running low on oil or dry.
It is a Cessna/Eaton pump, should be a Eaton p/n on the edge of the mounting flange if it has not been replaced, a good hydraulics shop can interchange the Allis p/n.
Edited by DMiller - 13 Oct 2015 at 9:09pm
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 7:45pm |
|
Thanks Miller, I'll let you know how it turns out.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Oct 2015 at 4:45pm |
Any luck?
If the screens are choked in the suction fittings will cause same issues, I know you had the trans out, were those screens clean?
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Oct 2015 at 8:19pm |
|
Unfortunately before i got your words of wisdom i took the steering clutch filters out and tore one apart to see if there was any accumulation, there wasn't. I finally found the filters on amazon, which said they were in stock, but a week after ordering they sent an email saying they were back ordered. So i went directly to the manufacturer who had them listed and they will have them the first of November. I really have my fingers crossed that this ol girl will work again. The only piece i haven't been in yet is the final drives. I have replaced the sprockets, tracks, torque converter, motor, transmission, shift valve body, hoses and if my wife knew how much $$ i have in it i would probably be sleeping in the bucket. I just feel so close, the motor will run for an hour and not lose any oil pressure. I don't know if i'm determined or dense but as soon as i get the filters i'm taking your advise and fill the pump with grease and see what happens, i'll post the results.
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Oct 2015 at 8:25pm |
|
Oh, i did pull both screens and neither had any blockage.
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Nov 2015 at 8:08pm |
|
Hey Miller wanted to let you know looks like the suction side from the bottom of the trans is wore out. Using ur prime method i was able to get just a little more pressure but nothing to work with and looks like the diesel gas has degraded to a point the motor does not want to run very well so now the fuel system has to be drained, the gas is old. I have reached my limit and am going to sell it. If you know of anyone looking for a HD7G: sprockets, pins and bushings 98%, pads 70%, good motor, trans, and final drives. You will also get extras parts such as motor, trans, all lift cylinders, complete ass end spindle to spindle, loader pump, and other miscellaneous parts. Please pass this along. I can be reached at 618-303-0769. Thanks again Miller for all your help.
|
|
JohnCO
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Niwot Colo
Points: 8992
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Nov 2015 at 11:37pm |
|
Sbp, It sounds like you are very close to having a working machine. I know you are a bit discouraged with the constant problems but the remaining ones aren't that big. Is it gas or diesel? If diesel and it hasn't had biodiesel in it, changing the filters and new fuel should fix it. If gas pretty much the same except clean out the carb. Sounds like a fitting or clamp might be loose on your inlet pipe, can you just replace it with a heavy duty hydraulic hose?
Don't give up the ship. Let it sit for a few days and do something else, it will be worth it in the long run!
|
|
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
Allis Express participant
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 2:26pm |
I had put on a new suction line to that side of my pump, the line itself was crap and I had to configure yet another. The Cessna/Eaton pump is available, I would go so far as to replace that one or at least take it to a hydraulics shop to see if repairable, they would usually shave housings to recover wear losses., while at it replacement of the fuel lines is not so bad as they reside along the left side of the seat rails. There is a drain petcock at the tank and a shut off to set up to drain contaminants or the whole contents.
My old 7G is a brute when working, can outdig a 955 on a bad day even on slick shoes and has plenty of meat to get it done, just those iffy days it gets cantankerous I would set fire to it in a heartbeat!!!
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 10:01pm |
|
After many beveridges and controlled breathing I've decided to take the pump off and have it tested, its a roper and can't seem to find any information on it. Is the cessna-eaton interchangeable?
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 10:03pm |
|
Hey Miller I saw ur ac on YouTube, very nice.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Dec 2015 at 8:51am |
The pump should be a twin inlet and outlet pump, not certain if roper ever made one for these. Should be mounted to the top right of the torque converter. Mine was a oval ear mount Cessna Eaton, splined to a shaft that drives from the converter gear, mind the shaft as you remove the pump as it has a front and back, clip end is the torque converter end. Double check the shaft splines to make sure they are not stripped or slipping.
I sure had fun digging out the foundation hole for our new house, made the old gal work for a living!!
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jul 2016 at 12:52pm |
Ok so after a long break and few more drinks i took the pump off had it tested by a coal mine equipment supplier and they said its wore out and no parts available for it. Does any know where i can get parts for a roper, which was the first type of pump, the cessna/eaton was the second type? Or where i can buy a pump? My a/c crawler loader #22938 and the pump #628239. Any help would be appreciated.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 29 Jul 2016 at 2:42pm |
|
I would go thru Minnpar first, check with another hydraulic shop, may be able to convert from Roper to Eaton Cessna as still available. May have to find a 7G late model to come up with the parts.
The drive shaft, shaft collar are similar but different length and spline, is also a adaptor collar which I used from my old parts unit on my runner. All of my extra parts have been utilized. General Gear in Idaho had a 7G in their yard, may have enough pieces for conversion.
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Aug 2016 at 8:23pm |
|
Thanks, I will check. I would prefer the cessna but want to make sure i can get the spacer parts. There was a post from 2012 that there is a pump available from spencer fluid power but the part number in the post was missing 3 letters. Going to try to reach doctorcorey.
|
|
sbp
Bronze Level
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Illinois
Points: 23
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 11:59am |
|
Would a bad/stuck left brake booster cause a loss of hydraulic pressure, still trying???lol There is no movement in the brake and its bottomed out.
|
|
DMiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 33740
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 6:31pm |
|
Should not affect the operation of the clutch system. The brakes use the same fluid but a worn pump is still a worn pump and as such will shut the system off due to low pressure/volume. I would try a parts search for all the connective components and upgrade the system to the later Eaton Cessna style pump. My steering pump has a single suction two outlets, when it falls short the steering and brakes come up short.
|
|
