Off color backhoe question

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   I have a friend who suggested I buy a ford 4500 backhoe because I could remove the backhoe pretty easy and use it as a field tractor.  He claims that on the fords the pto is right there and that the backhoe comes off easy.  
When I built my d15 I had an industrial to start with and I had to find an ag to get the pto and 3 point hitch.  I know I could have added the pto to the industrial but not the 3 point on my serries 1 d15.   
I also found an IH 2500B backhoe for sale locally at a reasonable price and an Oliver 1800 Backhoe.   All three backhoes are diesel I haven't looked at them to know what transmission they have.  The Oliver is interesting to me because it is bigger 80 hp I think on the 1800 serries but I don't know where you find Oliver parts.
Anyway i was wondering if anyone has experience with the IH or Oliver to know if I could remove the backhoe in a pinch and use it as a field tractor for haying.  I really don't like the idea of ending up in the same bind I was in last aummer.  Sadly I don't have the funds it will take to fix my case 5240 right now it just needs too much money spent alot more then I could buy a running tractor for.
Oh I should note the main reason I am looking at a backhoe is i have a lot of trenching work I need to do next summer and alot of stumps I want to dig out.  

Edited by Dan73 - 12 Nov 2016 at 8:59am

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Dan73 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan73 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Off color backhoe question Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 8:57am
	I have a friend who suggested I buy a ford 4500 backhoe because I could remove the backhoe pretty easy and use it as a field tractor. He claims that on the fords the pto is right there and that the backhoe comes off easy. When I built my d15 I had an industrial to start with and I had to find an ag to get the pto and 3 point hitch. I know I could have added the pto to the industrial but not the 3 point on my serries 1 d15. I also found an IH 2500B backhoe for sale locally at a reasonable price and an Oliver 1800 Backhoe. All three backhoes are diesel I haven't looked at them to know what transmission they have. The Oliver is interesting to me because it is bigger 80 hp I think on the 1800 serries but I don't know where you find Oliver parts. Anyway i was wondering if anyone has experience with the IH or Oliver to know if I could remove the backhoe in a pinch and use it as a field tractor for haying. I really don't like the idea of ending up in the same bind I was in last aummer. Sadly I don't have the funds it will take to fix my case 5240 right now it just needs too much money spent alot more then I could buy a running tractor for. Oh I should note the main reason I am looking at a backhoe is i have a lot of trenching work I need to do next summer and alot of stumps I want to dig out. Edited by Dan73 - 12 Nov 2016 at 8:59am

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DSeries4 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7451	Post Options Post Reply Quote DSeries4 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 10:13am
	Most backhoes were not designed for puliing power, but rather digging - running a big hydraulic pump. My Case 580D is a great old backhoe for digging out tree stumps, rocks and clearing fence rows but would probably fall flat in the field. There is too much dead weight on it that cannot be removed. No one tractor is capable of doing everything.
	'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080

Calvin Schmidt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Can. Points: 4529	Post Options Post Reply Quote Calvin Schmidt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 10:17am
	I don't think that any backhoe with a torque converter will work in the field. You will very quickly have a hot transmission.
	Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed

PaulB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4956	Post Options Post Reply Quote PaulB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 11:11am
	The Ford may or may not have a PTO. You'd have to crawl under and see if the is a cap with a large square that will unscrew to check. If it have a torque converter and power reverser it will most likely not have a PTO. They were available with a standard transmission as well. Most Fords that were originally sold as TLBs will not have hydraulics for a 3pt.
	If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY

Dan73 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan73 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 11:29am
	Thanks paul. I really don't need a 3 point just wondering if a backhoe could double as a backup drawbar pto tractor for my baler and mower. I am in the process of rebuilding the motor in my d17 this winter but I had to hay half the summer with a loaner tractor and I don't want to find myself in that spot again. So basically I wondering if there is a backhoe out there that would get me by in a pinch I would hope to never have to take the hoe off it.

Tim NH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Oct 2012 Location: Lancaster NH Points: 1119	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tim NH Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 11:36am
	Its been thirty years now, but we had a Ford 4400 or 4500. We got the back hoe off for the same reason. We took it off on the edge of the field. Now we needed to get it across the road to the farm There was a slight incline as I came up to the road. And that's as far as I got. It would just spin. Afterwards we realized that back hoes are balanced. You'll see an industrial loader w/ the right amount of weight on the back, to off set the heavy duty front end loader. I just saved you a lot of work. Tim
	1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207

TramwayGuy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11680	Post Options Post Reply Quote TramwayGuy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 11:53am
	The Oliver with the Reverse-o-Torc doesn't have a PTO capability. It would have hydraulics driven off the front of the engine. If it doesn't have the R-o-T it could have a PTO.

JoeM(GA) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Cumming,GA Points: 4768	Post Options Post Reply Quote JoeM(GA) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 8:12pm
	Unless the Ford is a gear drive if will be horrible in the field, as said above it will be overheating and having transmission issues very quick. My Ford 345C Hoe has a transmission lock up to stop the converter slip, but it is a real pain to use. I've taken the hoe off several 4500's I promise you it is NOT a job you want to do very often.
	Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB

Hayingwith185 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 12 Nov 2016 Location: Indiana Points: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayingwith185 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 10:40pm
	I own a Ford 4500, it has strong hydraulics for digging. If used as dedicated backhoes most came without a PTO. If you can find the data plate you will know if there is or isn't a PTO. This is found under the hood. Alternatively, these characters are also stamped on one side of the engine (low down and nearer to the rear of the engine). There are three lines of characters. A top line of D5011K is decoded as follows: D Ford 4000 series (including 4500) 50 Industrial tractor 1 Diesel 1 No PTO K 6/4 manual reversing transmission (6 forward, 4 reverse gears). The manuals suggest that the PTO control, if present, would be on the left side near the transmission. It would be a tall lever. Available engines were 3 cylinder, either gasoline or diesel. There were several choices of transmissions available on a Ford 4500 Industrial, unsure of which types were often used for dedicated tractor loader/backhoe. Potential choices included 6 x 4 manual reversing transmission, 4 speed power reversing transmission and 8 speed transmission. The second line contains information regarding the date of manufacture. The Ford 4500 backhoe was manufactured between January of 1965 and December of 1974. A date code of 3L08B would be interpreted as follows: 3 - 1973, digit = year of manufacture. L - Month of November (A= January, B=February, ..., I=not used, M=December) 08 - Day of the month B - day shift Third line is the serial number. Ground clearance for the front axle is 12 and 3/4 inches, for the transmission is 14 inches. Engine horsepower is circa 46 horsepower. The backhoe is a '4 stick' control system. If equipped with a loader, the loader will break out nearly 3 ton at the ground and 1.5 ton at full elevation. There were 12 inch buckets available for trenching, 18", 24", and 30" buckets for digging. Buckets from a later 755 will not fit this unit. Tractor/loader/backhoe if functional is likely more costly than would be to purchase a separate tractor of equivalent horsepower. Ground clearance is also low for haying; horsepower marginal. I agree with other posters that would likely purchase another tractor for haying. Hope this information helps.

jiminnd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Rutland ND Points: 2274	Post Options Post Reply Quote jiminnd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 7:24pm
	I think it is pretty much covered but most the 4500 I saw were torque converter trans, not much good for field work, I thought the 4400 series had the eight speed trans but the whole thing is like said, balance and they are only 46 hp.
	1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)