185 Power Steering

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   The 185 is our spray tractor, we cover 2500 acres a year with it.  We run GPS and ez steer in all are equipment, mostly old stuff.  I have been struggling to get good response from the steering system in our 185 and believe that it is becsue of the force it takes to turn the wheel.  
Is there a way to turn up the hydrulics pressure to make the steering easier?
Could we put a hydraulic cylinder with a larger piston on the steering?

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
Grave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Sep 2020 Location: Canada Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Grave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 185 Power Steering Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 8:42am
	The 185 is our spray tractor, we cover 2500 acres a year with it. We run GPS and ez steer in all are equipment, mostly old stuff. I have been struggling to get good response from the steering system in our 185 and believe that it is becsue of the force it takes to turn the wheel. Is there a way to turn up the hydrulics pressure to make the steering easier? Could we put a hydraulic cylinder with a larger piston on the steering?

Sponsored Links

DanielW Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 19 Sep 2022 Location: Ontario Points: 182	Post Options Post Reply Quote DanielW Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 12:05pm
	I'm sure you could. But I'd recommend checking to make sure everything's as it should be before modifying it. My 180 and our neighbour's 185 both have finger-tip, very light steering. Probably some of the easiest steering tractors I've ever driven. First thing I would do would be to make sure the spindles aren't packed with old, tough, dried-up grease (this can make a huge difference on ease of steering), make sure there's no slop or bad bearings in other steering components, and if it's still tough I'd start checking pressures and rod seals in the steering cylinders/hydraulic circuit. Just a guess, but I suspect either stiff spindles or that the pump's in need of a rebuild. I believe it's the centre section of their three-section pumps that are used for the steering, but someone with a better memory than me will chime on on that. Doesn't really matter: If you're rebuilding one section of the pump, you'd rebuild all three. They're a pretty straight-forward pump to rebuild - you just have to make sure you get all the shimming correct. Edited by DanielW - 17 Apr 2025 at 12:05pm

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21343	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 6:13pm
	Two answers...NO. You cannot just turn up the "pressure" to make the steering work better. And NO. There should be no need for a larger diameter steering cylinder in any kind of "normal" use. Think about the thousands of 180-185 tractors that have had manure loaders on them for the last 40 years. I've never heard anyone asking what you're asking. So, not being right next to the tractor and having to guess, is the chassis laden with a whole bunch of extra weight that would heavily load the front tires making it difficult to steer??? I'll have to wait for an answer on that. What age/year is your tractor ?? I know there was a vendor change to the power steering control valve in 1977 or 78 it seems. I notice things. I noticed that the effort required to actually turn the steering wheel was higher. But, I never had one customer complain about it. I had a dozen R-52's back in 1992-93 that had high effort steering. High enough in fact that I had people complaining. It used to take me about an hour, but I'd drop the steering valve down, pull the end cap off, remove 2 (of the 6) leaf type centering springs and reassemble. After that, it was back to pretty much one finger steering. Now, if you are using one of those rubber wheel gizmo's rubbing against the steering wheel for auto steer, AND you happen to have what I might call a high effort steering control valve, you might be onto something. If you didn't complain about this before you added the auto steer, maybe your effort is a little high, but you got along with it ?? If you cannot even turn the front wheels (at 1,200 RPM or more)....your steering system is overloaded or your pressure is not at 1600 psi at the relief valve.

Clay Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Udall, Kansas Points: 9664	Post Options Post Reply Quote Clay Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Apr 2025 at 7:00pm
	If the tires are underinflated, steering will be hard to turn. My D-17 does not turn easily when the front tires are underinflated. This is especially true when hauling a large round bale of hay.

Grave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Sep 2020 Location: Canada Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Grave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 9:01am
	uploads/21385/1000006431.jpg uploads/21385/1000006433.jpg No extra weight, its a spray tractor so we want minimal compaction. It's a 1979, i believe, SN8143. I made 3D printed gears for all tractor to alliviate any slippage. The force to turn seems constant at high RPM, no where near as easy as our 7000 or 200. According to the sevice manual the PSI for the steering shoulf be 1550 +- 50 psi gonna check that.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21343	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 2025 at 10:06am
	Steering effort should be comparable to both the 200 and 7000 with one exception. The 180/185 will have to be throttled up to 1000 to 1200 RPM or more to be as good as the other two are at an idle. That's normal. Steering relief pressure is in that 1600 psi range. That is not operating pressure. There is a brass bushing inside the steering wheel tube that could be dry and could cause high effort. Edited by DrAllis - 18 Apr 2025 at 10:58am

ranger43 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 09 Jun 2019 Location: Huntingburg Points: 154	Post Options Post Reply Quote ranger43 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Yesterday at 7:32am
	We have 78' 185. One owner, low hours when we got 10 years ago. From day 1 noticeably harder to steer that our 170, 175, 180, 210. So maybe it is primarily related to the vendor change?

Mikez Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Location: Usa Points: 8601	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mikez Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Yesterday at 8:03am
	Interesting set up.

Grave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Sep 2020 Location: Canada Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Grave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 hours 47 minutes ago at 11:20am
	Just checked the hydraulic pressure and its at 500psi that explains the difficulty. Now we need to determine if the relief valve is set too low or the pump is bad. I beleive that the relief is set via shims? Can I assume that we can add some shims and see if the pressure increases? Thanks for all the input so far.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21343	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 hours 43 minutes ago at 11:24am
	High effort turning the steering wheel could be caused by the bronze bushing being dry in the steering column tube. High steering effort could be caused by internal passages in the steering orbitrol being plugged ( I have only seen this one time in 45+ years) as it causes oil to be restricted when turning the steering wheel. High steering effort could be caused by the steering orbitrol itself simply requiring more effort to turn it. If this was the case I'd probably remove two internal leaf springs that return the valve to center when you aren't turning. High steering effort could be caused by spindles not being greased properly, but this should have been checked first before investigating anything else. Jack the front wheels off the ground and test for spindle freedom. A low output power steering pump could be a problem, and an indication of that would be having to rev the engine up quite a bit to improve the steering effort. Pretty good at full throttle and pretty bad at 1000 RPM would make me think the pump is the problem. Steering cylinders generally only do one thing......wander when going down the road at 15 mph. The internal piston seals get leaking and it still steers fine, but has a mind of its own going down the road. Completely failed steering cylinders will allow the steering wheel to turn and the wheels aren't turning when they should be.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21343	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 hours 37 minutes ago at 11:30am
	How and where are you testing this pressure???? 500 psi could very well be a "normal" operating pressure for your tractor. Steering relief pressure is determined by turning the steering wheel 100% to the right or left hard and holding it and making the pump squeal. If you only have 500 psi when dead-heading the steering system, there is a problem. I doubt that it's the relief valve. Never seen a bad one unless it has something holding it open. Adding shims is a bad idea if it truly is that low. Relief valves like this don't go from 1600 psi to 500 psi all by themselves as a rule. Steering pump is the front pump of the triple pump assembly. Edited by DrAllis - 20 hours 34 minutes ago at 11:33am

Grave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Sep 2020 Location: Canada Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Grave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 hours 50 minutes ago at 12:17pm
	We are folloeing the service manuals instruction. We dont have the device to read pressure and flow, so we tee'd in a pressure gauge at the point of entery for the steering motor. We rasie the RPM and only saw 500psi. We didnt turn the wheel all the way to the left or right, thats next.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21343	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 hours 26 minutes ago at 12:41pm
	Another test can be done by disconnecting one of the steering rams hoses, install a JIC thread tee to the end of the hose and reconnect to the steering ram. Connect a 2000 psi gauge to the open tee port. This will allow you to read exactly what pressure it takes to turn the wheels and what relief pressure is when you hit the end of the stroke. And, it's easy to install and remove.