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wjohn 
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Location: KS
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 Topic: HD-5 Assessment
Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 6:40pm |
If a guy were going to look over a dead HD-5, what tools would you bring? It's been sitting for probably 10 years. I am mostly curious to see if I can get the engine to budge at all. Not sure if I need to be worried about breaking something in the injection pump if that happens to be the only thing locked up, like some of the later AC engines? I have no experience with the 2-71s but repair parts availability looks a lot more promising than for the AC engines.
Is there decent access to get a breaker bar and socket (or something) to try to bar the engine over? Sorry to be so vague, but I have never worked on an HD-5 or any AC crawlers before. It's a bit of a drive away so I want to bring what I can.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Eric B
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Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: British Columbi
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Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 9:30pm |
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Being a 2-71 you don't have to worry about injection pump as it has none. The beauty of the old Detroits is having a primary fuel pump and the rest is taken care of by the tappets hitting the injectors. You need to be careful that the blower is not stuck or damage could happen to the drive mechanism. With a 9/16" wrench you can remove the two air box covers and you can look right into the cylinders or pistons with rings depending on how the engine stopped, you can squirt penetrating oil in there. I believe the front pulley bolt is 1 5/16" (I could be wrong) and there should be room to get a wrench or socket on it. Please let us know how you make out.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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wjohn
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Location: KS
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Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 10:53pm |
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Ha, that right there shows you how much I know about these engines! That explains why I haven't seen any videos on injection pump rebuilds for them. Thanks for the tips.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Codger
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Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 4:56am |
Very forgiving engine but does have it's "Quirks". Sticking unit injectors is common with one that has sat, blower driveshaft either stripped, or broken is another. When worn, they almost require a "snort" to get going cold.
If the engine readily cranks but will not start, pull the rocker cover and physically look at the unit fuel injector(s) to rocker tip clearance. A stuck injector will have almost 1/4" of clearance where it should be very minute, (if any). Many times a rolling head prybar will snap them back up and sometimes their fine, others they need sent in for rebuild.
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Les Kerf
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Location: Idaho
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Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 9:17am |
There is a small inspection cover on the flywheel housing that you can remove for adjusting the main clutch. A small prybar can be used to rotate the engine (I used a BIG flathead screwdriver).
Try wiggling the flywheel back and forth just a tiny bit at first. If the engine is not stuck it should move pretty easily.
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Ray54
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Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 12:26pm |
You don't say if dozer, loader, or bare ag tractor. If not a ag tractor very probably has a hydraulic pump in the way to turn the front pully.
Start at the undercarriage, the hardest to find and most costly if it is warren out. Rails and sprockets can be built up with welding, but time consuming.
I put a battery in one just wanted to see if it had a loose engine. Engine fired on the first half revolution, faster than I could get off the starter. Luckly it died pulling the fuel shut off. After checking oil, coolant, and fuel it would not fire. Had to pull the injectors and free them up.
Short drive line under the foot plates if you cannot get to front of engine to turn things.
Sitting 10 years steering clutches very likely rust together and not steer. But with luck just time and no big money parts.
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wjohn
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Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 10:56pm |
Sounds like I will have to go through the inspection cover because this is a loader machine.
The track pads are pretty worn so I expect a decent amount of wear underneath as well. Hopefully there is enough left to last for the little use I would put on it.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 11:15pm |
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Looking at a sitting HD5 - visual of full tractor , track, sprockets , rollers , look at rear case as many break casting at 1st reduction shaft bearing - outboard bearing .
Engine is last worry as it can be rebuilt and parts can be found New .
Does the shifter move , do brakes seem to move , clutch go over center , will shift lever move , is radiator sound or junk ,
After that one can start looking at fluids , and other cosmetics . Then if engine can turn over , .... I bought a HD5B with a locked engine - well turned out blower drain hole was plugged , water froze in housing and broke lobe . Later found truck frame was not bent but axle end was broken allowing truck frame to be off lineup .
2-71 also being a 2 valve head do get cracks is run hot , repairable though , HV7 injectors used , governors do freeze up and can create a runaway engine .
Transmission shift sloppy can be repaired , shift lever should move is straight lines not wobble in housing , like rotating partial turn between gears .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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wjohn
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Posted: 19 Mar 2025 at 7:34pm |
Thanks Coke! I will be sure to check for any cracks or broken parts before I spend any time on the rest of it. Of course I won't be able to easily tell if an axle shaft or something has snapped inside the case, but I should be able to confirm the castings are okay.
I also have to figure out hauling if it looks like a worthy project. I posted about it before, and it sounded like people on here have done worse things to 14K gooseneck trailers, but I'd sure like to shave as much weight off of the thing as I can and make two trips with my trailer. Take any counterweight/winch/ripper off the back. Maybe I can get the bucket off, and some loader linkages? I don't think removing the whole loader frame itself will be feasible. They do have another dozer or large wheel loader available to shove it onto my trailer.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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wjohn
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Posted: 20 Mar 2025 at 11:28pm |
I checked this unit out. Engine is stuck, fuel tank is rusted out, and I'm guessing the steering clutches are trash judging by the missing teeth and teeth that rusted out and completely came loose when I grabbed them. The platform/seat are AWOL as are the steering clutch covers.
I haven't worked on steering clutches like these before so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I suspect they were an issue to begin with (hence seat/platform and covers removed for access) and may be the reason the unit was parked?
However the undercarriage is one of the better ones I've seen. Pads are worn, but the tensioners aren't to the end of the frames and the sprockets look decent.
I didn't find any cracks except for in the crossmember that goes underneath the shaft & u-joint from the engine clutch into the transmission. It looks like it kept cracking and they kept rewelding.
This would be a total project, or more likely a parts machine for when I find a running unit. Your thoughts - worth scrap price and the hassle of trying to load and haul it 150 miles?
Edited by wjohn - 24 Mar 2025 at 8:41pm
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 21 Mar 2025 at 8:06am |
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If that machine was sitting next door to me I would pay $500 for it as a parts machine. In my area it would cost a minimum of $500 to hire it hauled 20 miles to the scrap yard.
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Ray54
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Posted: 21 Mar 2025 at 12:29pm |
The tracks look very good. The pins and bushings could still be bad, but lot more track than a lot have. The sprockets look almost new, which make me think the bushings are good too. Would be a crime not to save the tracks.
But how many projects can we take just for the love of old iron.
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Lee Bradley
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Posted: 21 Mar 2025 at 4:09pm |
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I was thinking they had just put a new undercarriage on it and quit using it. I would pay a lot more than $500 for that machine just for the tracks and rollers.
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Lee Bradley
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Posted: 21 Mar 2025 at 4:10pm |
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What is on the back?
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wjohn
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Posted: 21 Mar 2025 at 6:46pm |
There is some sort of homemade ballast tank, I think, on the back. It was empty, but it had fill and drain plugs so I'm guessing that's what it was for.
Thanks for confirming my thinking about the UC. I will see if I can get this one home and keep an eye out for a runner w/ junk UC.
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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gemdozer
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Posted: 22 Mar 2025 at 10:06am |
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Before removed the motor check the startor is not angaged on flywell ring gear and check if the master cluch ,the transmission and hydrolic are not angaged these could be the probleme
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 22 Mar 2025 at 5:21pm |
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I had 2 machines moved by hiring a guy who had roll off trash containers .
Pushed machines into box , closed rear door and when they got to here , just opened rear door , tipped box and out they slid . Was easier than me driving there with my lowboy and fighting with them to load and unload to do it again on next trip
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Codger
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Posted: 22 Mar 2025 at 5:56pm |
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I had a small excavator delivered here by the same method but it ran and moved by itself. Loaded into a roll off container, chained to the side supporting straps and dropped at the shop. Worked slick and a lot less $$$ than movers by other means.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 23 Mar 2025 at 6:43am |
 wjohn wrote:
There is some sort of homemade ballast tank, I think, on the back. It was empty, but it had fill and drain plugs so I'm guessing that's what it was for.
Thanks for confirming my thinking about the UC. I will see if I can get this one home and keep an eye out for a runner w/ junk UC. |
I might have something for you. I have an HD5G that has a good running engine, but the final drive on the left side has issues Under carriage is somewhere around the "useable" stage, for the hobbyist, but probably not as a bread winner. I got it probably about 10 years ago Had to put rebuilt injectors in it to get it to run to get it on my trailer to get it home, but then it did run like a champ. Steering clutches were both stuck, so I thought that after a set of Steering clutches, I would have a decent running machine. It ran back and forth in a straight line good. But somewhere along the way when I was rolling it back and forth to remove Steering clutch bolts, the left side froze up. After taking the lower pan off that final drive, pretty much all that I seen was rusty everything. Was getting a start on taking it all apart, but then I took a job off the farm, and my time resource sort of dried up. I had split the track in order to take the sprocket/lower shaft apart, but that's about as far as I got. Also sometime in its prior life, someone had welded the track tensioner to the rail that needs to be removed to get the sprocket off. So, yeah. It's just been sitting inside now for about 8 years now without being touched. Needs to go. I have all new Steering clutch parts for it, the thinner bi-metalic plates and nee spacer plates, all new springs, new throw out bearings. Pinion shaft already has new bearings in it. Just intermediate and lower shaft need attention. Probably have 2,500 hundred bucks into parts sitting there for it. New brake shoes too. One Steering clutch is all put together already But something needs to happen with it. I know that there are a few miles between us, but let me know if you think putting these two together to make one is something doable. For what some people are asking for good running ones, I'd say that there's some wiggle room in there money wise. Thanks, Darrel
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Codger
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Posted: 23 Mar 2025 at 8:19am |
I wonder how much of an HD5 would be compatible with an HD6 as far as undercarriage and transmission? I know of such an animal, (HD6 dozer) needing a transmission as the original had something wrong, was opened up and left in the weather going on about 20 years now uncovered. Engine still runs, but not much good in that alone.
Looking for another market for you Darrel.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 23 Mar 2025 at 12:55pm |
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HD5 and HD6 share all undercarriage parts , the number of links in track may vary , all parts in rear cases also same as case itself .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Codger
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Posted: 23 Mar 2025 at 1:35pm |
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Thanks Coke. I'll see if I can help a couple parties out.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 24 Mar 2025 at 5:50am |
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Thanks for watching out for me, Codger.
Darrel
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