D-14 electrical problems

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   Hey guys! New to this forum, this is my 1st post.

I have had a D-14 for 18 years. I use it to mow grass on my 3 1/2 acre property with a John Deere 272 finish mower (6' ). In the last few years it has had a few problems w/ the electrics. Basically, i am going thru coils and condensers pretty fast. I just put a new coil in it and got about halfway done w/ my yard and it is back to the same old thing. When the engine gets good and warm, and under power it will cut out and die. I can restart it if I decrease the throttle, and nurse it back to the barn using the hand clutch, but it has NO power after that. If I let it cool off, I can start it and use it again for a few laps until it gets good and warm and then the process begins again. I have put a new condenser in, and coil, and it works fine for a while, but not very long (1 mowing, maybe). my question is: why is it doing this? I have rebuilt the carb., newer exhaust manifold (old one rusted out), good fuel, I maintain it very well. It is kept in my barn,(not exposed to the elements). Last year I did a complete electrical tune-up on it (points, condenser, plugs, wires, cap and rotor) and it worked fine for a while, but now is doing the same thing again. help me!

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basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D-14 electrical problems Posted: 20 May 2011 at 7:02am
	Hey guys! New to this forum, this is my 1st post. I have had a D-14 for 18 years. I use it to mow grass on my 3 1/2 acre property with a John Deere 272 finish mower (6' ). In the last few years it has had a few problems w/ the electrics. Basically, i am going thru coils and condensers pretty fast. I just put a new coil in it and got about halfway done w/ my yard and it is back to the same old thing. When the engine gets good and warm, and under power it will cut out and die. I can restart it if I decrease the throttle, and nurse it back to the barn using the hand clutch, but it has NO power after that. If I let it cool off, I can start it and use it again for a few laps until it gets good and warm and then the process begins again. I have put a new condenser in, and coil, and it works fine for a while, but not very long (1 mowing, maybe). my question is: why is it doing this? I have rebuilt the carb., newer exhaust manifold (old one rusted out), good fuel, I maintain it very well. It is kept in my barn,(not exposed to the elements). Last year I did a complete electrical tune-up on it (points, condenser, plugs, wires, cap and rotor) and it worked fine for a while, but now is doing the same thing again. help me!

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MACK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664	Post Options Post Reply Quote MACK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 7:37am
	Was it 6V converted to 12V? If it is 12V does it have a resister befor the coil? If it is + ground does the + off coil co to dist? MACK

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 8:08am
	Well the last 2 coils I have put on it are the kind w/ no resistor. are you saying it should have the coil that uses a resistor? as far as i know it has always been 12v

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 8:11am
	where is the resistor (if it has one) located?

Steve in NJ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11919	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve in NJ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 8:26am
	You could have a couple different problems causing the one problem. First, a bad ignition switch can cause a lot of havoc on the Ignition system and its components. The OEM Ignition switches were under rated for the system for starters, and with the "stacking" of circuits at the back of the switch that AC used to do (bad move) caused big time resistance as the system aged eventually taking out the Ign switch. Another problem that you may have is, if the system has always been 12V, (the early Tractors were 6V)with the 4 cylinder engine, you need to establish 2.7-3.3 ohms of resistance in the Ignition circuit. A "universal" 12V coil will not do the job for this appication being it only has 1.5 ohms of resistance. The 1.5 ohm unit will work fine for 6&8 cylinder applciations, but won't cut it for the 4 cylinder. You need an internal resisted 3.0 ohm coil for the job. The reason I say "internal resisted" is because ballast resistors were unreliable under a hood of a 60's automobile. They sure as Hell don't last or work well out in the elements on a Tractor. Mother Nature plays havoc with those. One other thing you may want to check if the other two problems don't exsist, (but I would upgrade the Ign. sw anyway) is to check the Ignition circuitry from the Ignition sw. to the coil and distributor. Make sure there isn't anything pinched or exposed. Make sure your connections to the coil are correct. On Positive ground systems, the + side of the coil goes to the Distributor. If it was upgraded sometime in its life to an Alternator, it should be Negative ground. Make sure your Battery and Ignition connections are correct for NG. HTH Steve@B&B

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 8:42am
	OK, that is very helpful. I will check these things out and report back in a couple hours.

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 10:03am
	Ok, I had another coil (the kind that takes a external resistor) and installed it. Made one lap around the yard and it died and will not restart. I just called NAPA and they have a coil that is recommended for this tractor. I am going to go get it, install it, and do a tune-up again on it- I hope this does the trick. I will let you-all know, Thanks btw- yes pos.(+) goes to the distributor.

john(MI) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9262	Post Options Post Reply Quote john(MI) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 12:44pm
	You have a 6v coil and running it with a 12v battery. You need to put a big resistor in the wire going to the coil. The auto parts store should know what you need. The guy I got mine from said it was for a 68 Olds or something like that1/2" square, by 2" -3" long. Terminal on each end.
	D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446

Stan IL&TN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stan IL&TN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 1:02pm
	You sure it's an ignition problem? Sure sounds like it could be a fuel problem of not getting enough fuel. Especially since you say that you could nurse it back to the shed and it had no power. Sometimes stuff in the tank can clog the inlet or restrict the flow. Now if you have no spark after it dies then just ignore this.
	1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson

Brian Jasper co. Ia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 May 2011 at 7:47pm
	I strongly suggest you follow Steve's advice for coil choice. I agree fully that ballast resistors, most often found on Chrysler vehicles, were known for failure. GM and Ford built the resistance into the wire to the coil. What I found to be a good choice is what the single cyl Kohler engines use.
	"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 2011 at 10:31am
	ok, I checked the fuel flow at the bowl under the tank- what a deal, I stripped the threads in the little pot metal bowl tightener, and guess what, it is NOT a standard thread. So I had to mcguyver a way to hold the bowl on tight. basically took a 1/4-20 bolt, cut the head off, dremeled a groove in it to hook it on the saddle, and a nut under the pot metal tightener to tighten it up with- problem solved. Fuel is flowing to that point just fine. I put the new coil on, new cap/ rotor, new points and condenser, and now there is no fire at all. go figure. So I think it must be the new coil. The guy at NAPA said it was rated at 3.2 ohms, so it should be more than adequate for the job, maybe just a bad coil? Is there a way to test it? Should I put a resistor in the line before the coil per John's advice? what specs? It is turning into a project.

GregLawlerMinn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lawler, Mn Points: 1226	Post Options Post Reply Quote GregLawlerMinn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 2011 at 3:27pm
	Best to let us all know what battery/polarity do you have? 12V or 6V; pos ground or negative ground? The D14's came out with 6V or 12V pos ground (depending on year)... and is not uncommon to see "upgraded" systems that have an alternator and 12V neg ground. Also, it is not uncommon to nobtain new ignition parts (condenser, points) that are junk. That is why I convert my machines toi 12V neg ground and install Electronic ignition in them (using a 12 voult internally resisted coil).
	What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers. Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2. With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 2011 at 6:19pm
	It is a 12v positive ground, the wire from the positive terminal on the battery goes directly to the frame above the battery. I took out a spark plug to see if it was getting any spark, nothing. No spark at the points either. I took apart the place where the wire from the coil enters the distributor to see if it was somehow shorting out, no evidence of that either. which leads me to believe I got a bad coil.

Brian Jasper co. Ia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 May 2011 at 8:25pm
	3.2 ohms is ideal for a 4cyl on 12v. Don't add a ballast resistor to your new coil. Do you have battery voltage to that new coil? In situations like this, I use a headlight bulb to load test a circuit. You can have 100K ohms resistance in an open circuit (points open) and still read battery voltage. Once the circuit is closed (points closed) the high resistance won't allow enough current (amps) and your voltage will drop. Not enough voltage, no spark. Turn the switch on and try to power a headlight bulb off the battery side of the coil. If the bulb is nice and bright, do the same with the wire between the coil and distributor. Put it in a circuit to power the bulb without the coil. Nice bright bulb = good wire. Double check your point gap. Something like .018-.022 is what it's supposed to be if I remember correctly. Pull a piece of the cardboard box the points came in between the contacts. They typically have a little bit of oilly something on them so they don't corrode in the box. If your distributor shaft is wobbly in the bushings, it will be impossible to properly set your points. Before you condemn the new coil, try another condenser. There have been several guys reporting lately that they have gotten faulty condensers out of the box. Brian, your ASE Master, Ford and GM certified Electrical Tech
	"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

basketcase45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 20 May 2011 Location: Eminence, IN Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote basketcase45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:51pm
	Hey guys, I finally got er running. It turned out to be the new points were bad. After I had done the complete tune-up, and checked and rechecked the condenser, coil, etc, I finally decided to put the old points back in and it fired right up. I haven't tried it under power yet, we will see if it does the same thing as before. If it does, I will still need to find the root problem- do you think it could be the voltage regulator?