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Lonn 
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 Topic: While we're at it 7030-40 vs 4430
Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 4:46pm |
7030/7040 vs 4430 Deere and include others like the 1066 and 2-135 etc.
Pro and cons?
What do you think had the better engine reliability, fuel economy, power, drivetrain, hydraulics, Cab, controls, ease of service like filters etc, 3-point, original selling price. Things like that.
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AC WD45
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 5:09pm |
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Deer's 30 series motors all but refuse to start in the cold without their daily dose of crack (ether), which we usually only get three or four uses of each can before it's empty.
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German Shepherd dad
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1951 Allis Chalmers WD
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cwhit
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 6:05pm |
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AC, JD,IH, engines are all pretty good. Fuel- AC. Drive train IH. Gears JD. Hyds. JD. Cab IH. Controls JD. Ease of service AC. As always, just my opinion..
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acd21man
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 7:24pm |
i like the soundgaurd cabs on the deers dont like the cabs on the 7000s and the IH's, a old 1066 can skin it back in the field the Jd will keep up but they love the fuel and the AC is good strong tractors( we have a 220 and D21 the and theyll do every thing u ask, and a 4440 with the sub soiler cant keep up (not even pulling as deep as the 220)
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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DrAllis
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 7:34pm |
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Fuel economy goes to the AC. Long life engine goes to the JD. Hydraulics are waaaaay better on the AC. Driveline features/performance/reliabilty would go to the Power Director AC if you never had a torque limiter failure. Overall ruggedness/weight in the chassis still goes to the AC. The only thing the IH was good at was making a lot of HP easily and then you got to fix the clutch/brakes/TA/etc. The transmissions were as modern as a manure spreader with straight cut sliding spur gears. The hydraulics were better than a WD45, but not much better. Noisey cab....no diff lock (on older ones) front spindles with steering arms that always got loose, small underhood fuel tank, GREAT starter location, this is almost fun running down a 1066 !!!
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Dave in il
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 8:09pm |
I never liked the Sound Guard cab, they're cramped, the door frame blocks visability. Then there's the " it's stuck in park again" Quad Range transmission. And in my opinion they're the ugliest series of tractors Deere ever built. 4000 series were OK but but you got to go to the 7000 or 8000 series to find a decent looking tractor.
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TobeMo
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 8:56pm |
Ditto to what the Dr. said. Other than slightly better engine reliability and uncomfortable door opening-entering the 7040 wins hands down. Tobe
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Lonn
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Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 11:01pm |
 DrAllis wrote:
Fuel economy goes to the AC. Long life engine goes to the JD. Hydraulics are waaaaay better on the AC. Driveline features/performance/reliabilty would go to the Power Director AC if you never had a torque limiter failure. Overall ruggedness/weight in the chassis still goes to the AC. The only thing the IH was good at was making a lot of HP easily and then you got to fix the clutch/brakes/TA/etc. The transmissions were as modern as a manure spreader with straight cut sliding spur gears. The hydraulics were better than a WD45, but not much better. Noisey cab....no diff lock (on older ones) front spindles with steering arms that always got loose, small underhood fuel tank, GREAT starter location, this is almost fun running down a 1066 !!! |
Yep Dr, I've had lots of fun tearing down a 1066 after working 4 years at a CaseIH dealer and learning all the weak spots. You didn't mention the complicated front axle cylinder trunions and pins and bushings that wears out or the easily broken 3-point parts. OK, that's enough for me on ripping IH.
I feel like the hydraulic levers are too far back on the 4430 and the radio is too far forward and the ride is rough. The rear axle rack-and-pinion freezes up real bad. When you get out of the cab just remember to step to your left or you will miss the steps and have a nice fall. 7030 and 7040 definitely out lugs a 4430 and is more economical. The Power Shift on a 7040 has a much better speed selection anf IMO the Allis Power Shift is better built. Set the two power shift units side by side on a bench and you can see the Allis is much beefier.
The addition of good after market steps or black belly steps makes entry into the 7030/40 much easier. If they would start like a 1066 then there would be little else I'd change on the Allis.
Edited by Lonn - 17 Mar 2011 at 11:05pm
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Nick So. IN.
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Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 9:01pm |
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We have a 7050, 1066, and I have hundreds of hours on 4440 quad ranges. As much orange blood as I have runnin through my veins, and as much as my buddies would give me a hard time if they were to read this, a 4440 would win hands down in my opinion. I'm not a fan of the 7000 series cab, its just kinda hard to get into. Quad range in my opinion is 10x the tranny as the power director. The 4440's I've run have turned 195 horse their whole life, have one has 9500 hrs, the other 10,200 hours never had a tranny problem. The neighbors used to pull 8 bottom plows with their 4430's, they put injector pumps off of articulated 4wd's on them. Although its frowned upon, it's awful easy to turn up a bosch inline. I think the diff lock on the deeres is better as well. AC wins, fuel tank location, and hydraulics. I'm not real sure of the differences between a 4440 and a 4430, but there isn't much that i know of, i believe the 40's have an updated tranny, but not sure. sorry guys.....
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powertech84
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Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 9:13pm |
cwhit wrote:
AC, JD,IH, engines are all pretty good. Fuel- AC. Drive train IH. Gears JD. Hyds. JD. Cab IH. Controls JD. Ease of service AC. As always, just my opinion.. |
I can see all of your arguments except the ih cab and drive train. I have a 986, greatest engine ever, but the trans is an awful design and there isn't a control in the tractor that is easy to get to. Don't get me wrong, its been a great tractor albeit these shortcommings.
I promised i would stop reading/posting on these posts, but if i had to
fuel-ac, drive train-jd powershift, hydraulics-jd, cab jd.
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Lonn
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Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 9:26pm |
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A 4440 is more comparable to the black belly Allis' not a 7030/7040. The black belly cabs are easier to get into with nice steps and large well placed grab handles. The 4440 is a whole better tractor than a 4430. Better engine 466cid than the 4430 with 404cid, better transmission and longer wheel base more like the Allis with 106". The 4430 to me is kinda wimpy built. The 4440 still only had an 8 speed Power Shift which wasn't enough and still had that darn sound guard cab but a good tractor otherwise. You can't beat a Power Director at that time for reliability though. Why would a Deere diff lock be better than the Allis and what do you rate the 1066?
Edited by Lonn - 18 Mar 2011 at 9:28pm
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Nick So. IN.
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Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 9:45pm |
Difflock is right there next to the clutch and brakes kicks out if you tap a brake, and you're right about the 404 and 466, completely forgot about the main difference. As for the 1066, well what can I say. Ours has around 15-17000 hours. Good motor, the 414 starts good down to about 20 degrees. Its hard to shift, and since I was three I was told "what ever you do, DO NOT touch the lever on the left side." lol Lack of dif lock sucks. Havin both pto shafts right there is pretty convenient. Transmission/TA issues just kills it for me. Keep in mind I'm not a big fan of the 7000's just because of our 7050, its not quite mecanically up to snuff. While I'm at it does anyone know why it wont shift out of park, and it wont shift between high and low unless its warm?
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Lonn
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Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 10:16pm |
Nick So. IN. wrote:
Difflock is right there next to the clutch and brakes kicks out if you tap a brake, and you're right about the 404 and 466, completely forgot about the main difference. As for the 1066, well what can I say. Ours has around 15-17000 hours. Good motor, the 414 starts good down to about 20 degrees. Its hard to shift, and since I was three I was told "what ever you do, DO NOT touch the lever on the left side." lol Lack of dif lock sucks. Havin both pto shafts right there is pretty convenient. Transmission/TA issues just kills it for me. Keep in mind I'm not a big fan of the 7000's just because of our 7050, its not quite mecanically up to snuff. While I'm at it does anyone know why it wont shift out of park, and it wont shift between high and low unless its warm? |
I don't know about you but when I sit in my 7050 my right foot is naturally right next to the diff lock and it too releases when you touch a brake. I agree with about everything you said about a 1066. Is the shifter on your 7050 stiff to shift when the tractor is off? Could be the plates in the Power Director are warped from over heating for one reason or another. My 7050 was stiff but the cable for the range shift was bad and it was hard to shift and then I found out the cable for the foot clutch was bad and didn't fully disengage the clutch. It was so stiff it broke. After those two cables were replaced it shifts like a new tractor. How warmed up do you mean. I usually let the tractors warm up for 20 minutes or more in the winter and around 5 or 10 minutes in the summer before I even drive to the field. It's a good practice to get into for the sake of your equipment.
Edited by Lonn - 27 May 2011 at 11:59pm
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Nick So. IN.
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Posted: 18 Mar 2011 at 10:25pm |
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By warmed up, I mean has to be drivin for around 15 minutes before it will shift. Just sitting running it will not shift. No doubt it has issues. As for the diff lock, when i'm pulling, i've got one foot on the clutch, one on brakes, granted, in a non-tractor pulling scenario, it doesnt really matter.
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abbaschild95
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Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 1:26am |
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i dont know much about the counterparts but hte 4430 was always very reliable for us. never had any engine problems to speak of and nothing to complain about on the fuel economy. i thought the cab was exceptional for the time period it was from. cold start was a bit difficult but if we kept it plugged in it wasnt a problem. didnt have the quad transmission as mentioned above however. the powershift in it was good though except third was rough. hydrolics were tough to put in and out but thats more or less expected. was a loader tractor for most of its time with us so the hydrolics worked excellent. overall a sturdy ole tractor.. just needed an update is all. like i said i cant compare to the counterparts.. just my experience.
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Great-granfather's WC---- hopefully many more to come!
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Steve M C/IL
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Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 9:36am |
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When I was early 20's,my brother in law had a new 4630 quad range.It was a sweet experience to fall plow with a quiet cab,radio and heater plus you covered some ground with 6-18's.At this time, a WD45 was all I knew.
Edited by Steve M C/IL - 19 Mar 2011 at 9:37am
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Smokey Joe
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Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 10:10am |
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I've stood it long as i could, The 7030 drawbar, 3pt hitch, hydraulics, axle size,and just robust heaviness was way ahead of the 4430. The SCV's( spool valve ) on the 7030 are still what 90% of tractor manufacturers are using today do you see anyone using them o'l boxes that leak all the time and require 2 or 3 hundred dollars worth of parts a year-no.
The air conditioner was better on the sound gard cabs as we have both on the farm. The weight and handling of the 7030 was better for heavy pulling but for a hay tractor the visibilty from the deere was better. If the AC had an inline injection pump it would win every aspect hands down in that era, but a 4440 would open up another can of worms I have both and really enjoy a quad range 4440. AC is my first choice Deere is my second choice I don' consider a third choice.
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210,220,7010 AC,7020 AC,7040 AC,7045 Pedal Tractor, 8050& 8070 and Parts and Pieces of Many More!!!
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Wayne (IN)
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Posted: 19 Mar 2011 at 10:26am |
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I have some great memories from when I was in HS and college I worked for a farmer that farmed about 2200 acres with 4020's. At home we had a D-14 and a WD and I already thought the 4020's were awesome. He also had a 4620 that had been re-powered with a Detroit diesel. Twin stacks - man you could hear that thing plowing at night with 6-18's for miles! Then, he purchased a new 4430 with the quad-range and the open-station ROPS and a 4630 with the Sound-Guard cab, heat/AC, radio with tape and power-shift trans. It was hitched to a 6-18 plow and I spent many hours in that seat in the fall. The cab was so quiet - it was great. Thought I was really in the "tall cotton!"
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Lonn
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Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 11:44am |
Nick So. IN. wrote:
By warmed up, I mean has to be drivin for around 15 minutes before it will shift. Just sitting running it will not shift. No doubt it has issues. As for the diff lock, when i'm pulling, i've got one foot on the clutch, one on brakes, granted, in a non-tractor pulling scenario, it doesnt really matter. |
Pulling tractors are a whole different ball game as things are done that aren't considered normal. When driving in the field my feet, at least for me, are down more under my seat. Check your cables first to see that they move freely.
Edited by Lonn - 21 Mar 2011 at 8:02am
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Dave in il
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Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 11:21pm |
From TractorData.com
AC 220 - 135.95 PTO HP, built from 1970 – 1973
AC7030 – 130.98 PTO HP built from 1973 – 1974
AC7040 – 136.49 PTO HP built from 1975 – 1977
AC7045 – 146.88 PTO HP built from 1978 – 1981
AC8030 – 133.75 PTO HP built from 1982 to 1985
JD4620 – 135.8 PTO HP built from 1971 to 1972
JD4430 – 125.88 PTO HP built from 1973 to 1977
JD4440 – 130.58 PTO HP built from 1978 to 1982
JD4450 – 140.43 PTO HP built from 1983 to 1988
IH1066 – 125.68 PTO HP built from 1971 to 1976
IH1086 – 131.41 PTO HP built from 1976 to 1981
IH5088 – 136.12 PTO HP built from 1981 to 1985
These were big tractors back in the day. When the 1066 came out in 1971 its competition was the AC 220 and the JD 4620 by 1973 both AC and JD had introduced new, modern designs. The 86 series was just an update of an old tractor, if they could have jumped to the 5088 they may have gained market share over Deere again and survived, but the same can be said of AC’s 8000 series.
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Lester
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 5:18am |
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I have to agree with Dr. Allis!!!
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MikeB (SD)
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 8:55am |
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The 1066 was a very good seller for IH almost 55,000 units sold. I don't have any hard sales numbers for the 4430 but I know of serial numbers almost to 70,000 so it probably safe to assume over 65,000 units sold. Certainly not the sales domination that the 4020 held over the 806/856 from the mid to late sixties. I'm curious whether the 7030/7040 Allis was able to hold third place in this market vs the 1175 Case? Nick I see you own a 1175 Case, any comments? Case sold a lot of 1370's out here but that was more of a 7050/7060 competitor.
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Lonn
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 9:22am |
MikeB (SD) wrote:
The 1066 was a very good seller for IH almost 55,000 units sold. I don't have any hard sales numbers for the 4430 but I know of serial numbers almost to 70,000 so it probably safe to assume over 65,000 units sold. Certainly not the sales domination that the 4020 held over the 806/856 from the mid to late sixties. I'm curious whether the 7030/7040 Allis was able to hold third place in this market vs the 1175 Case? Nick I see you own a 1175 Case, any comments? Case sold a lot of 1370's out here but that was more of a 7050/7060 competitor. |
In my area it was IH, AC, Deere up until the 80's. Not much for Case or Ford and MF isn't even on the board.
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Steve Bright
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 12:00pm |
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I love my Allis Chalmers tractors, But in this case I'll take a 4430 JD anyday of the week, Bought a 4430 in 1980, still have it still love it. Could be the best JD tractor they ever built.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 12:20pm |
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lets not forget about the ih 1456 as a 135hp tractor. the 1270 case is more comparable to the 135 hp tractors, than an 1175 which is around 120.
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